I've been slightly amused by some posts claiming that we can't switch to the 4-3 defense because it might retard Gholston's progress as an NFL player--After all, he "learned the 3-4" defense last year and he and others on defense would have to "learn" the 4-3. Did anyone watch VGhost play last year? He looked as lost at LB as anyone on the field--He was a lot more comfortable in college with his hand on the ground. Jeff Lageman, a LB in college, played LB anonymously for 2 years for the jets before they switched him to a 4-3 end. Lageman didn't make the pro bowl, but he was a damn good end for the jets for 4 years. The Jags apparently thought so as they signed him to a big contract to play DE for them. And, NO, I'm not advocating that we switch to the 4-3 ONLY for Gholston. Ellis, Jenkins, etc., heck, our entire DLine to me would be more comfortable in the 4-3. If you watched our defense in 2008 what have we got to lose? Unless you like Tyler Thigpen, Shaun Hill, and Seneca Wallace, household names all, toasting the jets, at least CONSIDER the switch.
I don't think anyone is worried about Gholston, I know I'm worried that we spent the last 3 offseasons getting rid of good 4-3 players to bring in 3-4 players and that will all have been a waste if we switch back.
I think once we get an above average DE to compliment Jenkins and a OLB that can rush the passer effectively and cover a TE/RB, then we'll have a solid front 7. Ellis/Coleman are mediocre at best and our OLB/ILB are subpar rushing the QB and coverage. I don't object to switching, I just don't think we have the full package for either scheme to be consistent.
I remember one of the draft experts saying Gholston gets out of his stance faster than any player he's ever seen. Thats a skill that has no value at LB. Also, Gholston's 40 time wasn't all that great, but he had a great vertical leap number. Vertical leap is supposed to indicate first step quickness, more valueable in short runs to the QB then in pass coverage.
....... So speed and explosiveness are not important? And when was a 4.66 at 263 pounds bad? Theres alot of holes in this one. Gholston looked better at LBer as the season wore on if you watched really closely. You could see he was getting more comfortable with assignments and all that. He missed alot of sacks this year. Hopefully he gets one early next year and rolls. I think we should play a 3-4/4-3 flex D. We pretty much do anyway. It's not like every team that plays a 3-4 is a 3-4 all the time. Wheres the fun in that if the D's main objective is to disguise coverage? It's not like a true 3-4 team wouldn't have the ingredients to a 4-3 front. I think thats why Mangini wanted Rob Ryan as his DC. He coached both the 3-4 and 4-3 fronts.
^That's a great question. Even Barton who would seem to become superfluous can be a decent back-up or ST player.
Barton was a 4-3 linebacker before Mangini. The reason the switch to 3-4 is hard is finding the NT and OLB's who are pass rush demons. The D backs stay the same. Most 3-4 DE's are DT size, if not converted DT's, any way. Harris was a 4-3 MLB at Michigan. So I want to know who we need to get rid of to play a 4-3 and why?
I never questioned VG's "explosiveness", so that's irrelevant. I did question VG's speed, he is not fast or agile enough to play LB. There is nothing wrong with making this criticism, you really need to grow up. Top 40 yd dash times by position in the '08 draft http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers?tabIndex=0 Top vertical leap by position in the '08 draft http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers?tabIndex=0#tp-tab-set-1:tp-grid-container-vertical-jump VG had the best vertical leap of any DE in the draft. His vertical leap would have been second best among LBs in the draft. VG had the fourth best 40 time of DEs in the draft and his time would have been tied for seventh best among LBs. VG's vertical leap compares better to other players than his 40 time. This would indicate that his quickness covering short distances compares well to other players, but that his speed in covering longer distances does not compare as well. Watching VG play bears this out. He can show some burst around the line of scrimmage, but he can't even catch Cutler in the open field. And he was nothing special in kick coverage. Guy really can't play in space, he's a down lineman.
TF is that grow up thing about? It's called disagreeing. I know I should fall in line and call Gholston a bust as a DE/OLB, but I won't. Gholston just needs to get less bulky. Oh and it wasn't like Cutler outran Gholston. Gholston was just a n00b.
I'm with you on this one, DWare. I believe, with a new coaching regime (3-4 or 4-3...it doesn't matter) Gholston will show improvement next season. It's WAY too premature to write this guy off....if he stinks it up next season...well, that's another conversation.
It's more about the players we gave up the last few years- Abraham, Robertson and Vilma- specifically Vilma and Abraham. Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas were busts in the 4-3, we just gave both big contracts the last couple of years.
He is way too tightly muscled. He looks like he has a brace on his entire body. He cannot slide off blockers. And he has to develop something besides a bull rush. You have to give him time. But I am getting less optimistic as we go along.
But Pace is a football player and Thomas is not. You can just see that. Thomas has no instinct for the game and he is pretty stiff. I see none of the speed they said he had at draft time. God, Thomas over Ed Reed.
What this shows is that Tannenbaum is as clueless about talent evaluation as anybody who was ever in the position to make a pick. Great to know he is still our GM.
Sure. This is all JMO. Harris is a little slow to play MLB in the 4-3, he is better cut out as a 3-4 run stuffer. This is why he dropped to us. Barton is probably gone either way, one too many guys at LB and he couldn't cover anyone. Pace is a true 3-4 OLB> He was beyond a bust when he played in the 4-3. Thomas was a complete bust as a 4-3 rush end. He couldn't get bigger. Ellis is too small to be a 3-4 DT and isn't fast enough to be a 4-3 DE. Jenkins is fine either way.
Gholston is a bust and there is no way around it...can he change? Maybe but I doubt it. What's his motivation? He already has his 20 million in guaranteed money. He appears perfectly willing to wait until he is cut and then disappear into the sunset. He had 5 solo tackles in a complete season and at least a couple of them came on special teams. He is a bust...he may be one of the worst busts in NFL history..he is certainly the worst in Jets history.
This is a section of a article in the Post today by Merril Hoge, I guess we are not the only ones to notice " The Ghost" The Jets thought they were drafting a disruptive pass rusher last year with Vernon Gholston at the No. 6 pick. Instead, he was a non-factor, finishing with one solo tackle and no sacks, and he was inactive against Buffalo in December. "Why they drafted the kid from Ohio State, that's a mystery in itself," Hoge said. "We get film of the top 30 players before the draft. I watched him and thought he may be the worst football player of the 30 I saw. Being a good athlete doesn't mean you're a good football player. "There's a lot of good athletes. I want a good football player. I've never seen a more clueless player who completely lacks instincts."
