At the time this trade went down, I was for it, because I thought Vilma was a talented enough player that the Saints would end up retaining him, which would land us the second round pick. Now it turns out that the Saints can retain him and not give us a pick, simply by waiting for free agency to open before having him sign it. I don't really understand this, how this could all be structured so poorly. This isn't a loophole, this is just a broken trade. I cant even think of any situation in which we would ever have been able to land the pick. If Vilma wants to stay a Saint, theres no reason he would want the deal earlier, its in his best interest for the team to keep the pick. And the team certainly doesn't benefit in any way. So what the hell was the point? Did they really screw up as much as it looks like they did? Would it not have been a better idea, to say that the pick is given up if he's still on teh Saints roster come draft day? I kind of feel like Tannenbaum got carried away with the fancy trade parameters with Vilma and D-Rob, and the outcome is that weve got very little to show for losing these players. If theres anything Im missing feel free to correct me, but based on everything Ive read this loophole is wide open for Vilma to stay a saint and the jets to not be compensated for it.
They screwed up by not trading him the year before when he was healthy. Same with DRob. Square pegs and round holes. But I'm sure it was all Mangini's fault and he was hindering Tannenbaum's negotiating abilities.
You are incorrect if he doesn't sign we get a 3rd and give them back the 4th they gave us. If he signs we get the 2nd
If the Saints DON'T re-sign him before FA, they risk other teams coming in with a better offer. He might have a handshake/verbal deal to return to NO but money talks in the end. Once the Saints get a whiff of the market for his services - they might have to re-sign him before the FA period begins. And I'm sure the Jets are just a small handful of teams who WOULDN'T want his services. I ALWAYS thought it was a bad trade. I never understood how a player with his skills and potential couldn't be developed to fit into ANY system, or why the system wasn't built around his skills the way talent is assembled around certain players. Sure, he got injured and was subsequently labeled "injury-prone" but he was also a rookie of the year, and a passionate team captain/leader...thoroughbred material. Someone explain how this defense was considered an anomaly: Vilma AND Harris in the middle. Especially with Jenkins now in there, taking most of the double team pressure off one, or the other? The reason Vilma didn't shine was more than likely the undersized (impossible to be a 3-4 anchor) player we shipped to Denver for the equivalent of Rocky Mountain Oysters.
exactly. even if he has a verbal understanding with the Saints, there is no doubt he would listen to offers from other clubs if he has that option. the only way to ensure he doesn't is for the Saints to sign him prior to that. if they don't, it is because they don't value him that highly, and if that is the case, why would he eliminate the option of signing with a team that values him more, and maybe is a better team? this is much ado about nothing. if the Saints don't resign him prior to free aganecy, what happens afterwards is irrelevant.
Last week I caught Max Kellerman briefly mentioning this whole situation and how it involves the Giants (bc of the Shockey trade). Anyone got any info on this? Or was he just wrong and incorporating the Giants into the discussion because he's the worst homer ever?
Tannenbaum probably also had the foresight to see that he was going to be an UFA after this year and would want a lot of money. I don't think he wanted to give him the money because he didn't think he was a good fit for the 3-4 defense. Maybe he'll end up thriving in it one day, I mean, Ray Lewis did, but he didn't show to many signs of doing so. He also blew out his knee, folks. Most LB's don't come back as good as they were after doing that. Sam Cowart, anyone?
I know we have our 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th & 7th round draft picks. We gave up our 3rd round pick in the Favre trade & we have to give the Saints our 4th round pick for the Vilma trade. I thought we had the Saints 3rd round pick & the Redskins 4th round pick from the Kendell trade so we have 7 picks total. What happened with the Robertson how come we are not getting a pick for him ?
Denver purposely benched him a lot early on in the season, despite him proving that he was better than their other linemen when he was put in, so he didn't meet the requirements for even the 6th round pick.
Someone explain how this defense was considered an anomaly: Vilma AND Harris in the middle. Especially with Jenkins now in there, taking most of the double team pressure off one, or the other? The reason Vilma didn't shine was more than likely the undersized (impossible to be a 3-4 anchor) player we shipped to Denver for the equivalent of Rocky Mountain Oysters.[/QUOTE] name me a player..with his size that did good in the 3-4
Vilma is shot and will never be what he was. Tannenbaum tried to get the most he could for him. No one was going to give up that much for a player coming off a severe knee injury. Tannenbaum got a 4th last year and this year he is trading his 4th for the Saints 3rd. I don't think it's a bad trade at all.
Denver purposely benched him a lot early on in the season, despite him proving that he was better than their other linemen when he was put in, so he didn't meet the requirements for even the 6th round pick. So we are getting nothing for Robertson ?
The deal there, is that since the Saints traded a second round pick for Shockey, if they were to sign Vilma and need to give us that second round pick, theyd have to send their first round pick for Shockey. Which also pisses me off, not just because it gives that much more incentive for them to avoid having to send us the 2, but because, wtf, the Giants get more for Shockey than we get for Vilma? Shockey was coming off an injury too, is a couple years older, his teammates and coaches all hated him and he was about as far from his best year as Vilma was. The fact that we do get a third is some relief, i wasnt entirely sure what the other pick was that was involved. But Im not just saying I dont think we got enough for him, Im saying this trade mechanism as the Jets came up with it seems retarded, because theres just no way it ever couldve payed off. I understand that Vilma has the opportunity to listen to offers if he hits FA, but we know this guy, either he wants to go back or he doesnt, and either the Saints have the cash to make an agreeable deal or they don't. I don't see him making the Carlos Boozer play, saying hell come back and then splitting behind their back. Frankly the idea that he would have no idea what other teams would offer before that day he hits FA is a bit naive too, we all know no team in the NFL takes tampering seriously and players or agents certainly don't let it hold them up, if other teams want him for more money he'll know that. If Vilma and his agent were somehow in the dark as to his value, then maybe youve got something, because the Saints would be at an advantage in trying to sign him without anybody else being able to make offers, but in the real world, thats just not the case. Put another way, the only possible way I could see us having gotten a second rounder is if they used the franchise tag to keep him there against his will, and that may not work either because the deal as Ive always heard it said he had to resign. Otherwise, its not like they can sign him against his will to keep him from hitting FA, so what the hell is the point? Maybe Im missing something, but if anybody sees any possible ways that the Jets could have ever landed that 2nd rounder, feel free to make me look like an idiot. It reminds me of the Revis deal, where they wanted a six year deal, he wanted a five, so they came up with this six year deal with easily reachable incentives that would knock it down to a four year deal, and ridiculously overpaid him in the process. It's cool that somebody's clever enough to write contracts in interesting ways, but I'd much rather see us doing good deals than having us do bad deals in all these interesting ways.
name me a player..with his size that did good in the 3-4[/QUOTE] Easy Donnie Edwards with the chargers thrived in 3-4. You get enough protection up front than a guy like Vilma and Edwards can be quitte effective.
name me a player..with his size that did good in the 3-4[/QUOTE] Ray Lewis. Vilma is the same height (6'1), and the 20 pounds Ray Ray has on him is weight that's been growing since his rookie year. He could have hit the gym and Peter Luger more often to accomplish this goal.
