I have been reading through a lot of threads and seeing all the random comments about Garrard, Flynn, Revis etc...etc...and really can't understand why people don't get it. You know...if anyone hasn't faced the fact yet...when you blow a bunch in a draft to get your franchise QB and it doesn't pan out you feel it years after the fact. EVERY draft article or talking head says the exact same thing! When you blow your shot at getting the "franchise" you pay dearly for a number of years after the fact. Well, we shit the bed 4 years ago when we traded a crap load and brought in Sanchez!! Then...to compound the problem our GM had a brain fart and actually gave him an ass load in an extension after an absolute abysmal year! So now, explain to me how we are NOT supposed to look like a train wreck at this point. Everyone has a damn opinion on the subject...hey, at least we aren't the Jaguars. We got 2 AFCCG's out of our wreck before he went full belly up. I'm a glass half full kind of guy....most of the time. But right now, I'm pretty amazed at many of the posts I'm reading. What in the hell did everyone here expect? Many bitch about David Garrard. Who did you really think we were bringing in? If I hear one more Flynn comment...or Kolb this or that...they are BOTH under contract! Get it through your thick heads! Until either gets released it ain't happening!!!! Boo hoo...we can't get rid of Revis. He's our best player!! Waaaaaahhhh... Yeah, well, our best player couldn't give two shits about the Jets or the team's fans. He's held out both times for a contract. The 2nd hold out was with 3 years left on his original deal. As Champ always says...when was the last time Revis has won us a SB...? I say, so far, never. So explain to me how we can't live without him? If it were up to Revis he would rape and pillage the team to the tune of $16 million a year. Unless he's touching the ball every offensive snap there is no way in hell I'm authorizing anything close to that! I want to win...I want this team to win. Revis does not guarantee me/us of that. I say don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. I'm not being held hostage for any damn corner back....period! Get with the program people. Yes, we are going to blow ass in 2013. And, more than likely, in 2014 as well...unless Marty pulls a "Bill Walsh" and has Sanchez do a 180 and is playing like Montana. Personally, I do not have faith in that happening...but we WILL get 2013 to see as we are stuck with Mark. Unless Garrard does actually beat him out...well, then you know where we stand. So chin up! Either deal with the fact we are going to suck in the short term or keep stressing over that which we have no control. As far as this year goes the only thing I personally have to say about anything is we had BETTER not waste our 1st round draft pick on ANY of the QB's that are in this draft. That would immediately place Idzik on the shit list for me.
Well said my friend...Past decisions do affect the current. Out with the old and in with the new. After Revis is gone, Holmes and Harris, and Sanchez are next years big cuts. Either restructure or see ya. This is the approch the new regime needss to take; oh we NEED to draft well also. No more trade ups for ? players
Pretty much sums up my thoughts. 2013 while we aren't SB contenders on paper, will in a strange way be a refreshing start to a new path. It's long overdue. This really as much as it sucks is exactly what this franchise needs. They need to step back, clean up the cap, stop handing out ridiculous contracts and start to build a team with young promising talent. 2013 is the first step towards that. I'm more optimistic for 2014 due to our cap opening up and allowing us to have evaluated 2013, act accordingly. The Jets are headed in the right direction, and not trying to go all in, in a delusional way and I like it.
I agree, its clearly time to move on. This all started 5 years ago when we brought in Favre, after 08 we were left with no QB, so its just been one band-aid after another, but its time to build the right way. Like the Giants, Steelers, and Pats. No player is safe.
It wasn't that much of a "blow" on Sanchez compared to other franchise trades. It has been compounded by poor value from other picks since 2008. It's still too earlier to call the majority of them busts but we've not had much immediacy from the likes of Ducasse and other second to mid-rounders.
This is as it should be. The Jets don't have a roster full of young talent headed towards an epic march to the Super Bowl. Instead they have a roster in which the best players have value right now and will be 30-ish in a couple of years. The answer in that situation is to blow it up and get a bunch of young players in with a few mainstays kept around to keep things from going into free-fall during the rebuild process. If the Jets had a prime QB the equation would be completely different. In that situation you add immediate play value and leverage the existing 28 year old talent into a strong run right now. Absent the QB however that effort will fail and so the Jets are rebuilding.
agreed. drafting sanchez didnt hurt all that much considering we pulled 2 other starters from that draft. tanny doubling down on sanchez was crippling. if he was playing to that contract or was able to be cut with no cap implications things would look much brighter
2007 - Trade a 2nd and a 5th to move up and get Darrelle Revis. Trade a 3rd and 6th to move up to get David Harris. 2008 - Draft Vernon Gholston on the 6. Trade a 2nd for Brett Favre. Trade a 3rd and a 5th for Kris Jenkins who retired after 2010. 2009 - Trade a 2nd and 3 roleplayers to move up and get Mark Sanchez. Trade a 4th and a 7th to move up and get Shonn Greene. Trade a 5th for Lito Sheppard who was cut in 2010. Trade a 3rd and a 5th for Braylon Edwards who left as a free agent after 2010. Those are the moves that ruined the Jets talent and depth over time. That's why the roster was thin and talent-deprived last season. Missing on Gholston and then Sanchez was killer but all the other moves around those decisions leeched talent away from the Jets over time and by 2012 they were running on empty. Idzik comes from an organization with the opposite philosophy. The Seahawks don't bet on sure things, they make a decent number of draft picks and they establish a running competition to get on the field. I think we're going to be really happy with the difference in philosophies when it all plays out.
My all time favorite move. Jenkins was a center piece of our defense, and was the most dominate when he played. Unfortunate knee injury, that could happen to anyone. I agree with the foundation of your post, and hope we continue the philosophy you present.
Good lord I hadn't even thought about going that deep. Holy COW!!!! That's 14 draft picks which resulted in Revis being the only "bell cow" of the bunch. Harris is good as well but hardly worth two picks. I did love Jenkins but he simply didn't play long enough, injury free, to warrant the value. 14 draft picks!!!! That's a whole side of the football traded away. I'm GLAD we went and got Idzik...as someone already pointed out, he keeps picks and builds...we sorely need that. Whewwww...
Jenkins had already had two knee surgeries when the Jets acquired him. The knee issues after he joined the Jets weren't just predictable, it would have been an upset if he didn't drop out due to them.
His ACL injury was due to being rolled up on, it didn't just give out. He was a force for our defense, and made it a dominate defense. In fact, people were praising him for the first few weeks as the reason for the pressure. He got injured, and that is football.
It wouldn't have been so bad, if Sanchez had not stayed on the field. The Raiders for example moved on from Russel pretty quickly. The Sanchez bust is compounded by the fact that there is no alternative, and he is talented enough for the staff to keep giving him chance after chance. I think Tanny was doing that to get cap relief, and to try to make one more run at a championship before blowing the team up. There was a media report that Tanny + Rex considered blowing it up before last year which in retrospect might have been the talk about a Revis trade last year. Flynn is probably available for trade. The Seahawks have talked to the media about getting a backup with Wilson's skill set. I don't think it's that crazy to talk about him, outside of the fact that I think he's making decent money that we don't want to spend this year. I don't feel awful about 2013. I'll have to see how I feel after Revis is traded and the draft. I look at it like this: 1. Yes Sanchez blows, but he was missing Holmes and Keller last year. Assuming he gets at least Holmes back, we should be alright. Also, Garrard may win the job, and would probably be more productive than Sanchez. There is also the outside chance we get another QB (Foles, Geno Smith, etc) and they pan out. I am hoping Marty Mornhinweg will bring a much better offensive philosophy to the Jets, and regardless of which QB starts, they will be more productive. 2. The defense will be ok. Losing Scott and Pace isn't a big deal, and the team will know going in that there will be no Revis. Last year they were Ranked 18th, and I still think Rex is one of the best defensive minds in football. I don't expect the Jets to be great, but I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled off 8-8. This team was basically 1 game short of the playoffs in 2011. That window may be shut, but I still think we've been really successful with Rex and we will continue to be.
Yeah, I don't feel bad about 2013 at this point. The only thing that is likely to change that is if the Jets get out ahead of themselves and start talking about being in contention for the year. That may happen but it would be a pleasant surprise if it did, not anything that anybody should be expecting at this point. Under-promise and over-deliver. That's a recipe that will never go wrong even in a hostile media market with heavy local competition.
This is a great reply, it brings up the philosophical part of being a GM. Allow be to play devil's advocate. Can we really bury Tanny for these moves? It is easy to be critical of them now because Tanny is gone now and 2012 was a disaster. However, in retrospect those are also moves that opened a playoff window from 2008-2011. Revis and Harris were huge wins, Farve was a solid trade as was Braylon. Tanny also traded a 2nd round pick for Cro Sanchez was obviously the huge bust, as was Gholston. How much of this is on Tanny, and how much of it is on Rex, Mangini and the scouting department? Lets pretend Tanny makes all the right moves. He still trades for Braylon, Revis, Cro and Harris. He passes on Gholston and Sanchez, never trades for Lito nor does he trade up for Greene. Here are the picks we would have had (if I'm counting correctly): two second round picks a third round pick a fourth round pick two fifth round picks a seventh round pick So yeah, we basically traded away a whole draft class. However if Tanny wasn't that aggressive we might never have had Revis, Cro, Braylon and Harris. Do we make the AFC championship game runs without them? I don't think Tanny failed in his "trader mike" philosophy. Where he failed was talent evaluation, and missing on big bets like Sanchez. If by some strange occurrence Sanchez went first that year, and Stafford fell to us, we'd probably still be hailing Tanny as a genius. It may be a better way to build a team over the long haul, but I do think Tanny was successful in his time here.
I agree with some of your post, but not on Sanchez at all. The Jets barely gave up anything for him. They traded some scrubs to the Browns. Sanchez took them to 2 AFC Title Games and a .500 season, then was extended. The team around him (including coaching staff) was complete crap in 2012. How was he supposed to succeed? Mark is an average QB. Put good players around him and he can win it all, put crap around him and he will look like a bottom 5 QB. That simple. Giving up on him is a mistake.
What the Jets gave up to make the runs was four 2nd round picks (Revis, Favre, Sanchez and Cromartie), three 3rd round picks (Harris, Jenkins, Edwards), a 4th round pick (Greene), five fifth round picks (Revis, Jenkins, Sheppard, Edwards and Holmes), a 6th round pick (Harris) and a 7th round pick (Greene). What they got out of that over 6 seasons was 2 playoff appearances, both deep runs to the AFC Championship Game, and a 47-49 overall record in the regular season. What they wound up with was a shallow and untalented roster at just the point that all of those draft picks would have been gelling into their maximum value. They effectively traded 2012 forward for 2008-2010. The trade-off may have been worth it, however I'd argue that it wasn't because the one thing the Jets never were during the process and have no realistic hope of becoming now is an elite team capable of consistently competing with the top teams in the NFL. If they'd won a Super Bowl then the calculus would be different but that's a big if and since they didn't they effectively lost out on the window. Note that many teams have won Super Bowls recently after only winning 9-10 games in the regular season. The difference between those teams and the Jets is that those teams had a good team moving forward despite winning with an above average team the year they won. Knowing what we know now it's pretty obvious that if the Jets win a Super Bowl in 2009 or 2010 the odds are still pretty good they collapse by 2012.
Sanity and reason are both in short supply here. Jets didn't blow a bunch for Sanchez. They blew extra 2nd rounder for it - which was mid-to-low mid pick. They dumped fringe players for that - I have no qualms over that move. We all know, Sanchez only had 1 year of college bowl experience. So, it would make sense to install systems that is QB friendly. (The heavens know Schottenheimer's bullshit was anything but.) To make the matter worse, Jets systematically stripped Sanchez of his weapons and protections. Hell, I know Sanchez sucks by now, but I do not think the likes of Tom Bradys, Peyton Mannings or hell, Joe Montana could have succeeded with that kind of fiasco from the front office. Don't just take my word for it. Just look it up yourself: Alan Faneca -> Matt Slauson. (Ok. Jets lucked out on this one.) Damien Woody -> WFH (Good lord.) Thomas Jones -> LaDanian Tomlinson (2 year rental) -> Shonn Greene (Jesus) Chansi Stuckey -> Gone (Before saying stupid shit, check who caught Sanchez's first TD pass. You'll see what I mean.) Braylon Edwards -> Gone Out of 11 starters, Jets just didn't get adequate replacement (or if they did, not in time - as in Stuckey -> Kerley case.) With these kind of disaster from the front office, how can anyone expect any QB with half competency to succeed? That is just impossible. (So, Tannenbaum fanboys, praise your whizkid GM here.) Like I said, sanity and reason are both in VERY short supply here. I wasn't too upset with it - I was just hoping Garrard came in at vet min. That's all. My reasoning? whoever the QB is this season, they are tossed by the next season unless they stay as a backup at backup money. I rather didn't want to see Jets go get either Kolb or Flynn and waste cap space that is already way too thin. Glad that didn't happen. 1. For the third time: reason and sanity are both in short supply here. 2. That said: it is simply amazing what kind of stupid shit these people come up with. My idea was, since I know Jets are not in the SB hunt this season, it would be better to 1. accelerate their cap hit 2. build for future during this season I don't want to see Jets blow 1st on QB either, but much worse is seeing yet ANOTHER rookie under the center come the regular season. (It is THIS reason that I want to see Sanchez in Jets uniform for 2 more years at least.)
I love how people complain about Revis wanting money and a big deal as if your the one paying him and its your money. I would want that contract to if i was Revis and why should he care about the fans??? Jet fans arent the type of fans players care about and i dont blame them. Revis deserves every dime that he asks for bottom line and we arent gonna pay him it so its over hes gone, end of story will trade him for scraps and complain about it in 5 years
