Talk about absurd the reason the Falcons rushing attack is so good is beacuse teams have to always focus on Vick. Warrick Dunn, an excellent back averaged 3.93 YPC in 4 years on a very good Tampa Bay team. Dunn has averaged 4.58 YPC in 4 seasons with Atlanta. I watched the GB game and Vick played great in that game he also played very well against the Rams in the playoffs in 04 rushing for 119 yards and throwing 2TD's. I don't love Vick but the facts are there are only a handfull of really good starting QB in the NFL capable of beating really good defensive teams and Vick while not in the very top tier is one of the guys who is capable of breaking a great D down and winning.
of course he didn't do it himself but he did lead the there. Prior to vickt he Falcons stunk from '99-'00, they draft Vick in '01 and by '02 Atl is back in the playoffs and hand GB their 1st ever loss at Lambeau in postseason then he gets hurt in '03 and Atl sucks then he's back in '04 and Atl makes the title game. The problem is everyone puts too much emphasis on fantasy #s and not on winning- it's why people think Manning is better than Brady, it's why people think Culpepper is an elite QB. Moreover, the myth that is continuously propagated that Vick "took the Falcons to the NFC Championship" is more absurd every time I hear it. That "very mediocre" Falcons team had one of the league's best pass rushes, and both Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett did a very good job. They were sixth in the NFC in scoring defense. Vick basically managed the game against the Rams and then got knocked around by Philadelphia. He might have an overall winning record, but he is not by any means a player that can win games for you. Vick makes plays to win games, it may not always be pretty(it may not ever be pretty) but overall it's been very effective.
Bottom Line Vick always loses to teams with fast defenses that can neutralize his ability to run;therefore as long as there are teams with fast defenses in the playoffs Vick will never win the Superbowl...unless of course his passing ability vastly improves(which he hasn't shown signs of yet). Young is much slower than Vick so therefore his running ability will be much more easily neutralized..unless of course he develops into a MUCH better passer than Vick, which will cause defenses to respect the pass and open up running lanes. If you don't think that Young can develop into a GREAT NFL passer it is too much of a risk to take him.
Ron Mexico is a pocket passer. He doesn't want to hear the criticisms anymore because after one 300+ yard passing performance in 2005 he has silenced all critics.
Winston, we disagree quite often, but I think we respect each other. I have to point a pretty big hole in this post though. He made 3 Pro Bowls, and somehow that justifies him? Seriously, the league instituted a new rule so that they can change games around this year to make sure they don't get another national t.v. repeat of Vick vs. Chicago. If you put Vick against even a decent defense, especially with speed, he is done. Chicago figured him out last year, and I am willing to bet the whole football world took notes. Vick is the NFL poster boy of the moment, but then again, if Bush lives up to the hype, bet Vick will not be seeing many Monday night games in the future. Atlanta has had a decent team in a decent division/conference. That's what got him successful runs in the recent past. Sure, 26 is young for a QB, but let's be honest, would you rather a Penny at the top of his game, or a Vick at the top of his, if you were going to play in a championship game? If you can honestly say you would rather have Vick, then I guess we will never agree on anything about him. As far as bust, there was a reason I put it in quotes. I don't necessarily consider Vick a bust. He is by far talented, as is Young. However, neither fits my idea of a QB. I want a QB who sits in the pocket, at expense to himself, to make plays happen with the talent around him. Vick and Young would make great WRs who threw passes on trick reverse plays once a game. Junc, I agree Brady is a "better" QB than Manning. The only reason for that is because he wins. Now that may be a result of the system Brady is in. If Manning played in NE over the past half decade, you wouldn't know the name Tom Brady. Peyton has had too much freedom to control his offense for too long. He is cocky, and doesn't realize he can't win games single-handedly. (I have a feeling that is why Edge decided to play in the desert sandbox.) Brady is cocky off the field, but on the field, he is an obedient captain. Stat-wise, Brady doesn't hold a candle to Manning. If I had to pick one to be my Super Bowl QB, without batting an eye the answer is Brady. During the season though, I would take Manning every time.
Sorry pal, but you will see plenty of games with Vick on Monday, if not in the playoffs.... It seems like the Falcons have no problem in drafting quality Free Agents Players want to play there. When was the last time you heard that from any Free Agent. We can barely sign free agents because they don't want to play for this damn franchise The guy has taken his team further than this Jets franchise and you want to talk? Chicago did not figure him out Chicago has a great front four No QB can do well when there is pressure constantly in your face. Check the tape. That game was lost in the trenches..
Penny at the absolute top of his game, the best he ever played and will play was shut down totally by the Raiders and almost by every top NFL D he ever faced with few exceptions. Vick at least if he plays a solid game can break down a top contending D and puts you in position to win so the answer is while in any 1 game performance hard to tell in order to win a 3 game tournement against at least 1 or 2 really good defensive squads I would take Vick in a heartbeat over Pennington because he can break a team down that has everything else bottled up. You saw what the Pats did to Manning, what Steelers did to Hasselback. They contained them. Seattle contained Rothlesberger all day as a pocket QB, it was when he broke out of the pocket that the game changed in Pitts favor. Vick is in a terrible system for him and his WR suck. They should get the guy a legitimate deep threat WR who can go up and get the ball and than see how well the Bears contain him when he goes over the top of the D.
Falcons starting WRs were a second yr player and a rookie.... Please talk to me about Vick being mediocre when he has at least 3 seasons with them.....
What the heck are you talking about Vick has been totally shut down everytime he faces a fast defense. His passer rating hasn't shown any improvement over time. What hope do Falcon's fans have that Vick will ever be able to win it all? I live in Atlanta and most fans I talk to are very disappointed, many would rather have Shaub start. Pennington struggled against teams that EVERY QB struggled against. The Jets as a team were underdogs in all of those playoff losses and still were competitive. At least there was always hope when Pennington started.
Atlanta fans started to buy tickets when Vick was drafted. Alot of them don't know Football and last I checked Schaub hasn't won an NFL game yet.
Even if this is true..why do you think Vick will all of a sudden turn into a great NFL passer? He beats teams with his ability to run, when that is taken away the Falcons lose everytime!
Vick has the same playoff record as Pennington and won as a road dog in GB and lost on the road in Philadelphia twice in the playoffs. What has Pennington done that Vick hasn't done at an age that Pennington hadn't even started a game yet. Vick is the same age today that Pennington started his first NFL game.
I gave you the reason for the statement. Because he is already going to be the most athletic quarterback in the league's history and if you add that to a more cerebral and developed passing attack he will be very tough to defend. Two notes about this: 1) Young could increase his throwing accuracy greatly by getting his footwork to be more consistent. Also, I would not have a problem with him throwing sidearm if he could find a more consistent arm angle. 2) He will not have to throw over guys as tall as him, because he can gain an angle on defensive players by moving around in and out of the pocket. It's not like there aren't tall defensive linemen in the NFL--you do know that players in the NFL come from college right? His passes have not been batted down in the past and as long as he has the mobility to not be forced to throw straight into the defensive line every pass there won't be a problem. My arguement is no different from yours. Do you think that the Eagles haven't won the Super Bowl because McNabb isn't good enough to win it? They haven't won the big game because their offense is too one-dimensional and their defense has consistently worn down. I'm not even 100% in favor of taking Vince Young, but passing on him because no scrambler has won before him would be downright moronic.
This is a mostly fair argument. He has equalled Penny's success at an earlier age. However, is that a result of talent level, or getting the opportunity younger? I was clamoring for Penny to get the ball while Herm was sticking with his broken dog Vinny. But it's really nothing that can be argued at this point. Your point is valid since the facts speak for themselves. Vick has had the success at the younger age. That said, I would still rather have Penny at the top of his game over Vick at the top of his own.
I don't know about this statement. The most athletic QB in the history of the league? Cunningham used to punt. Vick is pretty damn athletic. Hell, even Favre has been very athletic in his career. Maybe you could say Young potentially has the most physical presense of any QB in history. He has height, size and speed not often seen at the position, but I wouldn't go so far as to proclaim him the most athletic. By finding a consistent arm angle, he would be changing the mechanics of his motion. If his shoulder is accustomed to throwing at erratic angles, bringing consistency to that motion could result in loss of accurracy, and even injury. Muscle memory cannot be overestimated.[/QUOTE] Again, he will have to think run first. This is central to my argument. I don't want a QB that has to consider moving around before worrying about his target running his route. Keep in mind that the average NFL player is taller than the average college player. It's only natural. In college you play so many guys who have no chance of playing professionally. In the NFL, these guys, even the bottom of the barrel guys, are the best talent in college. Just because players couldn't stop him in college doesn't mean it will be the same result when he plays sophisticated defenses. Not to mention, you can get away with your hands on a tackle's shoulders in college. In the NFL, if that ball is throw in your direction, you are a DL, and your hands aren't going for the tip, you are in a whole truckload of trouble when you come back to the sideline. My point with McNabb is he became good enough to win it all. Had TO actually shown up to play, not simply to make his presense felt, the Eagles probably could have won that game. McNabb was able to be competitve because he stopped running around though. He has gone to the pocket passer style, and it has benefitted his football maturity (regardless of what some activists may say about him not being a "black QB" whatever the hell that was supposed to mean.) I'm not saying pass on Young simply because he is a scrambler. I would have taken guys like Cunningham way back when. If a guy scrambles it doesn't make him a poor QB. Winston made some good examples of guys who were mobile and successful. The thing I am saying is, there is a big difference between mobility and scrambling. If Young had the aim of Manning, and the pocket patience of Brady, I would be leading the charge for drafting him. I just don't feel like spending time trying to groom him, while we are installing a new offense and defense, and hoping that he learns to be a true NFL QB is worth the risk. If he could be had in round two, I would take him. No way I spend a first round pick on a project though. Not when there are enough QBs who already have the pocket mentality.
