It is interesting to me that people think there are football players who hold down "non premium" positions. They assume (QB excluded as it is such an outlier in terms of importance) that somehow an edge rusher, or offensive tackle, WR,etc are more important than others. Not so. Every play has 11 moving parts and one screw up ruins the play, both on offense and defense, and I'll even include the long snapper. 22 players start. If a team has some number of those players who are not effective in their job, they need to be replaced ASAP. The Jets had a woeful passing attack last year. The Jets did not have an interception last year. And so on. They need better players, its that simple. If they can draft 3 starters with first 4 picks (assuming a QB might be in the mix, and if not it's 4) thats huge. I don't care what positions they play, they are assumedly replacing players who screwed up. Just draft really good players. If they are really good in the NFL they will help the team win. Another term thrown around as if it means something..Value. Like its somehow connected to money or draft position, and provides some benefit. Not talent. It seems If you get a player who helps the team, you got value. I've been a market investor for umpteen years and have seen growth vs value stocks discussions forever. If a stock goes up you got value. If a dividend increased you got value. No one knows which stocks will give you value going forward. No one knows which players will give you value going forward. Its how they play, not what they cost or where they were picked.
Couldn't really disagree with this more. Some positions are obviously much more impactful than others, and value will always be important in salary cap leagues. The ideal team is maximum talent per dollar spent, not just maximum talent. We even have a recent example of someone who didn't consider positional value at all in Mike Maccagnan. Even his good picks didn't move the needle because they were at non-premium positions and he was one of the worst GMs in league history because of it.
Not particularly defending Mac but SB winning QB in Darnold, Williams, the fat one and Q, Fatukasi, Adams and Maye. We got good draft capitol back for Q and Adams. Anyway, I'd just like us to draft 4 players in the first 4 picks who will give the Jets 10 years of quality service. I don't care what positions; getting a good-to-great player will make a damned change for once. The next two drafts could change this franchise for a long time to come, are any of us confident it will happen? Nope.
Here’s the thing you can’t ignore in my opinion 3 positions in football QB, LT and Edge rusher. They are by far the most important positions. Why? Well it’s simple really those 3 positions have the most impact on the game because it revolves around THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION IN ALL OF ANY SPORT ON EARTH! You need a quarterback who touches the ball on every play, delivers the ball in the air or hand off, sets up protections for not only himself but in the run game, makes audibles, calls the play in the huddle, reads the D and it goes on and on… LT protects the quarterback blindside to decrease fumbles and gives him time to make a play. Edge limits the time a quarterback has to make that play, physically tries to impose on his play and has to be athletically gifted to get around tackles. After those 3 positions yes I feel drafting based on talent and talent alone is the right way to build a franchise. However, you need those 3 positions in place as your foundation.
Nonsense. If your left guard is porous, what difference does the tackle make? Or if your right side isn't doing its job? What's the difference between an edge who averages 1 sack every 2 games (or 8-10 per year) vs. a defensive tackle who gets you 1 TFL every 2 games? Maybe I got this name wrong, but didn't Bryce Huff have some amazing sack numbers and the Jets still were awful? You need competence at a majority of positions. I specifically excluded QB from my discussion.
Why are they obviously more important(QB excepted)? There is lots of buzz around Love at 2 or some other high draft slot, yet many people say RB is not important. What is value in salary cap league? You think its getting what you pay for? If you draft a guy and you sign him to a second contract, you got value. He played well enough to deserve it. doesn't matter what the initial contract detailed, which is determine by draft. As it isn't quite a zero sum, cause teams play with cap numbers all the time, good teams that stay good for long periods obviously have figured out how to maximize the dollars they spend.
Unfortunately, that’s just not the reality of football. If your left guard stinks you have the Center to help slide to help block the DT. The LT is left with the best pass rusher in pass protection 1-1 most times. Sometimes the TE helps Chip is the edge is really quick. Protecting the QB and giving him time is vital. On the flip side with edge you are decreasing the quarterbacks time and physically punishing them. It’s kinda the way football works from the don of time.
1. You already refuted your own post 2 sentences in when you acknowledged there are premium positions (you agreed QB was one). 2. You are doing the thing other posters in other threads are doing, which is using “all positions matter” as your premise. That is wrong and it is arguing a completely different point altogether. No one who believes there are premium positions is saying that the non-premium positions don’t matter. Literally no one, so stop with that BS. What they are saying is some have greater impact, very different. You used the example of a porous left guard in your straw man analogy. How about you flip it the right way, and say you have the best LG in football. You also have the best pass rusher in football. Are you telling me the pass rusher doesn’t affect the game more than the LG and the two have completely equal impacts? Who you taking, the best guard in football or Myles Garrett? The top ER gets paid about twice as much as the top guard, maybe you can figure out why.
Myles. Remind me where his team finished. You, as with many others, seem to think that one play in a game, lets say a sack (means 18 in a year..terrific), determines the outcome. I don't care how good left tackle is..the Jets have a decent one, if there is a screwup by one of the other 10 players. And you are correct, I am saying other than QB their are no premium positions. If you truly believe that, why not use every pick on a QB, or a LT, or and edge. I mean you get like 5-7 picks in a draft, why waste them on anything but a premium position. You will eventually luck out that way and fill a premium position with a quality player. I don't think there is any team with a great QB,edge and left tackle. You see, I have been watching football since the 1950's. A long time. I have seen umpteen examples of great players which at the time were deemed "premium" positions, where the team just didn't win. During the running game era, Jim Brown (the Browns only had moderate success during his tenure), Barry Sanders, and so on. Calvin Johnson. Dan Marino. I mean there are huge number of examples of teams with outstanding players at positions deemed "premium", yet they did not win. QB aside, football is really the only sport where it does take the entire team to win. Baseball is basically a 1 on 1 game, Hockey is more of a team but a great player can dominate, Basketball, again a great player can dominate. I would love to have a team with 22 above average players than a team with great "premium" position players and below average at other positions. Also, I have said there is only 1 premium position. So I don't mind you refuting my points, I do mind false statements.
You continue to make straw man arguments and points that have nothing to do about one position making more impact on a game than another. A team win or a blown play has zero to do with what we're talking about. You know how I know? Because you acknowledge there is a premium position, QB. Use your same illogical arguments but substitute in the QB position instead of the others. How can a QB be a premium position if the LG is porous? How can the QB be a premium position if we've seen great QB's not win? See, its irrelevant. You also didnt answer my question: say you have the best LG in football. You also have the best pass rusher in football. Are you telling me the pass rusher doesn’t affect the game more than the LG and the two have completely equal impacts? You did answer the other question and chose Myles. Why?
Rotational players such as long snapper or special teams in general have less value than starters on offense or defense. Running backs and receivers are often less effective for plays focused on other players if they can not be sn effective decoy. Offensive linemen on the other hand play on all of the offensive snaps. With tackles and centers being prioritized offensive guards are criminally undervalued. Having a 300 pound dancing bear means pounding thd rock and giving your QB time to throw the ball. . The biggest mistake most people make is to look at the current roster and trying to fill existing holes at all costs. If you want your rookie to flourish in three years when it is more reslistic that the Jets might be capable of making a playoff push it is essential to keep an open mind and imagine that a player who is clearly the most talented but plays a position that is handled by an existing player will fill a need in three years that is not yet visible.
You keep missing the point. The point is, every position on an NFL roster is premium. @James Hasty, I would even disagree with your kicker and long snapper. Let me tell you what, make no mistake, Adam Vinatieri and the LS for New England were two of the most valuable people in a few Super Bowls. Hell, the NY Jets wouldn't have won shit without Folk and the LS. I digress.... You people keep talking as if LT, Edge and QB are the end all be all. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Sam Darnold, Jeff Hostetler...the list goes on of QB's who were mediocre at worst and just above average at best yet all are Super Bowl Winners. Hell, that was one of the major selling points of New England's run with Tom Brady. He, literally, was the ONLY elite player on a handful of those teams, along with a core of GOOD not great players, and they won how many Super Bowls? Dallas has been LOADED for years and can't get over the hump. Parsons was TRADED! Whether Jones is playing with a full deck is irrelevant. He still traded, arguably, the best defensive player in the league! Myles Garrett has already been noted. His team hasn't even been competitive, let alone win jack. The sheer fact some place one position above another, including QB, is the moment you WILL fail as a GM. It's all well and good talking about it as fans but, let me tell you, no self-respecting GM is poo poo'ing L or R Guard. They aren't minimizing nose tackle or an off the ball LB'er. They aren't shitting on the kicker. Of which, I don't know why fucking fans keeps shitting on the kickers!!! Who, by the way, almost ALWAYS lead their teams in scoring. So, if we're talking points here, the fucking kicker should be the most SCRUTINIZED player on the team as he's who's going to net you the MOST POINTS! Seriously folks? People have their heads up a QB's ass so deep they forget that, guess what, the QB doesn't do shit alone. Believe you me, I'll take a whole 24 man roster (don't sleep on that kicker and LS) that has good to very good players across the board and I damn skippy BET you I'll whup your ass 8 times out of 10 every single game. Cincinnati, great example. Arguably the best pure QB in the league with 2 receivers most teams would kill for and, at least last year, one of the top 5 edge rushers and they didn't do shit. With Burrow on the field and without. And that's been going on for the last 4 or 5 years. So don't bullshit me/us/we about how PREMIUM a position is over others. You only look foolish for trying to press your agenda and thought process when it's clear as crystal the other way.
Rotational players only have less value in that they play on 4th down or after a score. Less game time. BUT, when they are in the game they have as much value (PREMIUM) as downs 1-3. Jets won 1 game with special teams. A muffed snap, a missed tackle, a poor kick are extremely costly and should not be undervalued. Offensive lineman play every snap, but quite often a play does not involve some of them in any meaningful manner. Same with receivers and backs. same with QB. I think the center is the player mostly involved in any play. Not only does he start the play, his assignment is always active during the play. Does that mean the center position deserves a "premium" rating?
Keeeeep telling yourself that. What I said above is that EVERY position has the SAME value. No one is winning without any of 11 guys on the field. Finito, end of story. I don't care if you have Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Steve Young and anyone else you can think of wrapped up in one person. If ONE player is missing from that line, they don't finish the game in one piece. Period. So go tell me I'm wrong.
Yup. There are 11 freakishly athletic and strong and fast people trying to eat your lunch on every play. If you have a weak link they will find it
thats not true at all. Every team has weak links especially in today's salary capped era. Winning is about hiding your weak links or having such strong links that it mitigates them
So why isn't there a score on every play. Of course everyone has weak links. That's why not every play is successful. The weak links can't be hidden. Team study opponents and game plan based on opponents and self strengths and weakness. Of course, human fallibility means players and coaches sometimes miss ad sometimes exceed. But the weak links are not hidden. They can be mitigated to some extent.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. I'm not sure if theres a real question there but if you are asking why teams dont score on every play there are a number of reasons for that
