Clearly Brady makes Bellicheck look great but give me another example? I thought Knoll and Bradshaw were great together, Star and Lombardi, Weeb and Namath. Give me an example of 5 great QB who made 5 mediocre HC look great or 5 great Coach's who made 5 mediocre QB's look great?
You will hate me for this but Ewbank did have trouble on how to help Namath in the passing game. In America's Game, Don Maynard himself said that anytime Weeb got involved with the Namath-Maynard connection, it hurt the team. I can imagine that Weeb's involvment in the Defense was great but in terms of handing Namath, it wasnt his strength. But I love Mr. Ewbank. I believe that Knoll and his Defense was the reason for most of the rings on Bradshaws finger. He struggled for years before he finally got the starting job and did well with it. Bradshaw got great after a while. Starr and Lombardi i cant argue with, but Lombardi had a run 1st attitude. He loved the run way more than the pass, no disrespect to Starr. These come to mind: Parcells and his defense was the reason for the Giants superbowls (missed kick too) I don't know about Gruden and his team in 2002 Defense again Billick and his defense in 2000 I'm too young to know about Joe Gibbs and his QBs. So i ask if this is a good example? Ditka and his defense with Jim McMahon In the 41 years of Super Bowl football, not all champions have great coach/QBs. Sometimes its the system, sometimes its the QB being above the system and everyone else on the field.
i was typing fast and the space bar kept getting jacked up....didnt mean to add east there....what shocks me is that you, as a jet fan, think the team was actually 4-12. we were starting brooks bollinger for most of the season, and had a slew of injuries. i called 11 wins for us last year (before the year). all the 'experts' seemed to forget we started brooks as well...the talent level on the team wasnt as defficient as most would have believed. EM has a vast amount of potential.....but a topic like this is still a few years off.
BTW, I think we can rule out 'the wanton song' as someone with anything intelligent to add to a debate. Is it possible to seriously add anything to a thread as far fetched as this one? The guy is trying to put Eric Mangini on the same level as the greatest coach that ever lived. :rofl:
You are trying to compare the 2004 team with the 2006 team. Not a fair comparison when you consider we are minus guys like Jordan, McKenzie, Mawae, Martin, Abe, Fabini, Chrebet, Moss...etc. It was an entirely different team. Anyway, the thread is right on time, bc when you post it in a couple years it is blatently obvious hence no need for a post. Kind of like most of your posts in this thread.
Is this post for real? Ok, going into this season, some people think the Jets have lost some ground to the Pats from a talent prespective. That is of course, is debatable. But on thing I think the Jets have over the Pats is a better head coach. I know lots of peole are going to crusify me for this being that BB is a legend and from an accomplishment standpoint Mangini is a neophyte, but hear me out... Belichick is angry that Mangini left for one reason and one reason only. He fears him. Why else would BB get so wraped up in his hissy fit mind games like locking him out of his office and not talking/acknowleding him etc. EM is younger. This states the obvious of course. The not so obvious is that EM has more energy than the old man and he has a hunger that BB will probalby never experience again. BB has been there and done it. EM hasn't and that bodes well for the young Jedi. Just like BB was the "new generation" from the BP tree when he left NY, EM is the latest incarnation of the BP tree. He has taken everything from BP, BB and wrapped it up in sweet new flavor ready made for the Pats to choke on. EM is well liked, BB is not. I am far from being a fan of "players coaches". Herm was well liked too and I could not stand him. The difference is EM is a hard nosed, driving, disciplinarian yet he has a way and a charisma about him that despiste his iron fist rule, his players like him and want to win for him. Proof is in the pudding, since EMs arrival, players and coaches have defected south. None have headed back to the north. Bottom line is that EM is in BBs head. BB knows what he is capable of and he showed it last year when he took an less talented team on the road and beat him. I think that was EMs first real taste of the sweetness that will come in surpassing NE. From an football inteligence perspective I am confident that EM can match anyting BB can produce and likely better it. It may or may not be this year that we overtake the Pats, but if things keep moving in this direction it is not a matter of if, but rather when. Hey BB...remember when you took our money and then backstabed us to leave for NE? Now you know how it feels to be betrayed. Payback is comming and your on the clock. Blow all your $$, make your final stand and then get out while you can because payback is gona be a bitch. ****************************************************** Is supersonic serious with this post? Mangini has no body of work from which to judge ANYTHING. Yes, he has POTENTIAL but so did Blair Thomas and we know how that worked out. Jets split this year with the Pats losing 17-14 and winnng 14-17. Jets play Pats notoriously tough, but look at the Pats, this past season was a down year for them - even at that they won 12 games, and the division. Pats are older and slower then they have been in the past. Teacher fears student? Thats like saying a father is afraid of his son. BB is exponentially the coach that EM is right now. In 10 years it MIGHT be different but we will certainly have to wait. EM is getting more of his players right now than Herm ever could, but being that champion of that compliment is dubious at best. Life in the NFL is about sustained success, not a single season 10-6 record. This can simply be explained by excitement of having new blood or just rookie success. Have you never before seen rookie players or coaches have success in the 1st season but as the years wear on the league wears them down..... as in Sophmore slumps. Your argument is baseless and irrational. If you extrapolate from this one season then your argument has merritt. But this is like doing a drug study with one rat and one dose then claiming you've cured cancer. Get real. Jets have reason to be optimistic but they have a ways to go before they're outside the shadow of the Pats and before EM is outside the shadow of BB.
Strength of scheduled had something to do with the Jets winning season last year. This year the schedule is much harder. Four of the Jets' first six opponents made the playoffs last season. EM and BB face off in the first game of the season. The first test of your theory. :breakdance: Let’s see what “Prince” EM does in these first four games, and particularly in the first game, before we start comparing him to BB. I think you’re a bit premature in your prediction. Although, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. :jets:
I remember you said before the season last year we would be lucky to win 5-6 and you would be estatic if we won 8. So don't change your story now to strength of sched. I don't think it benefits us to open against the Pats. Things really haven't changed much between our playoff game and the first game of the season they still have better talent than us. However, I think our second game will be much more telling. It will give us some time to get our new cogs working in the machine.
My basic take on the Belichik vs Mangini competition is that there's absolutely no question, and no way to frame the question, around any position other than that Belichik is on top by a large margin right now. Belichik has more rings and the better team at the moment and until at least 2009, but probably for far longer, the first part of that equation will be true. We'll know when the dominance flips without having to argue about it. It'll be the first season the Jet's sweep the Pats and win a Super Bowl. That's what it's going to take. So arguing whether or not Mangini is on top right now is just not remotely feasible. There's no arguments for it and plenty against.
If you want to compare BBs yesterday with EMs today, than yes, sure. It was the first thing I said in the thread. However, if you compare EMs today with BBs today I think you see EM with less talent acheiving more than BBs team with much more talent. EM needs to get an opportunity to recruit and develop his talent and then we will see the true measure. I think it is akin to picking a stock. Anyone can buy google's stock today based in its past proformance and talk about how great the stock is and how great it will continue to do. It is very different to be able to spot the potential and and buy it a couple years ago. So again, based on what I have seen so far, I have seen enough for me to put my money on EM vs BB moving forward.
BB bought a dog of a stock with the Patriots when he took over and turned it into Google. There is no comparison between BB and EM. Em should be compared to shawn Payton and all the other new coaches in the league.
youre right...im just completely out of it...and youre so grounded in reality.....do the schnozzberries taste like schnozzberries?
I'm ecstatic about having more than 8 wins last year. I think EM has done a very good job. :up: However, he simply is not in the same league as BB. :sad: Maybe with time he can bring us to the promise land. If he stays with the team. EM has to win more one super bowl to be even considered in the same vain as BB. With an aging and injured team BB still won 12 games last year. I will grant you it?s much easier to win in this league with a superior QB. TB is one of the best ever. By the way, another reason the Jets had a 10-6 record is because CP was healthy. I think HERM would have had a winning season last year with CP playing. If my memory serves me, BB won a super bowl in his 3 season with the PATS. EM only has this year and next year to accomplish the same thing. We could continue this debate forever. I hope you are correct and EM leads us to the promise land in two years. Talk to you in two about KING OR ASSISTANT EM :jets:
so what youre saying is youre right, no matter what, and anyone who dares to rail against your vast and superior knowledge is but a fool....why even post? let me guess...you thought kevin maas was a sure fire hall of famer after that september call up too? and hensley muelens was gonna go to the hall after smashing hammerin hanks record....dude....EM is a solid coach...but stop riding his knob this hard. its looking a bit sad...
I would even take that a step farther and quote Lombardi here. "Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will all be judged by only one thing -- the result." Being a good coach means nothing unless you win. BB has won 3 times. We can start comparing Mangini when he has done the same.
I know, everyone wants to point out the obvious and compare BBs resume to EMs and in that case, as I have acknowledged several times including the first post, there is no comparison. If you can't strech your melon further than that, than fair enough. But as we all know past performance is no indicator of future returns. And going forward my pick is EM over BB. It is as simple as that. Maybe other people pick BB to outperform EM. If that is your pick, that is fine. It means that you think we will continue to get drubbed the Pats as long as BB is there. I just don't think that is the case.
