That entire post is dead on. This is why I still feel we are rebuilding and will be into next season. We do not have all the right parts to play our base scheme. Its going to take another year to get more 3-4 type players in here. The downside is many of our current guys are not prototypical 3-4 guys. When MT/EM took over the state of our lines was a mess waiting to happen. Without good players and depth in the trenches, skill players mean little. The O-line was addressed a in a big way at the 06 draft. All you can do is hope that Brick and Mangold continue to progress and some other parts are found this year. The D line still needs upgradeing. D robs best asset is his speed off the line for a guy his size. I'd love to see him get a shot at 3-4 end. Coleman has been good to this point and shows alot of hustle when the play goes away from him. Ellis is a dissapointment. The LB's also share some of the Blame here as well. Thomas is invisable this year and Hobson is not an edge rusher. Too many Square pegs trying to fit in round holes at this point.
You hit a nail on the head here. I noticed yesterday that we're playing a very vanilla version of the 3-4 and its killing us. We only blitzed a saftey once the whole game and we almost got a sack and forced an incompletion. Where is the inovation in our defense? Whats happening this season? Frankly, I don't know.
because there are times when we generate pressure and stuff the run, i'm not completely sold on a lack of personelle. like the above post states, Rhodes came free on a well-timed blitz and it lead to a near sack and incompletion. having said that i'll be the first to admit we need to upgrade and replace certain positions (NT, OLB, S). so now i turn to Sutton. this guy hasn't shown any type of progress in the playcalling and mixing up the fronts. i guess some of this falls on Mangini's shoulders, but i think Sutton needs to go if the D doesn't turn around this year. wouldn't it be nice to have someone as creative and open-minded as Schotty calling the Defense? at least then, some of our deficiencies could be compensated.
I?m starting to question the Mangenius coaching ability. The defense is getting worse. It seems that we are better equip, personnel wise, to run a 4-3. Why are we still trying to use a 3-4? A good coach modifies his system to complement his players. When are we going to adjust of system to put the players in the best possible position to win? :jets:
i'm curious to know what changes the Steelers made since they have vice-versaed what we're doing. their D doesn't seem to be going through a major transition phase.
Steelers chose to stay with a 3-4 because that's what they have been successful with. Tomlin wants a 4-3, which is his base, however he's not going to change something that's been so successful over the years until he knows it's going to work. The Jets had a different situation with only 2004 being a successful year on defense since the Parcells era ended. Their personnel all said 4-3 but the 4-3 was not a very good one.
Our '04 D was a top 5 D, we had injuries in '05 that helped us to stink but most of the same players fro '04 were still on the team in '06. The 3-4 just isn't working, our best players are 4-3 players.
Well you heard the famous saying "Houston we have a problem" Maybe that should be changed to "Hempstead our D has a problem'" Actually I think you are way, way, way over estimating the abilities of D from D/line to LBers to the DBF. Actually I am beginning to wonder if our genius owner was sold a bill of goods by EM or EM was sold a bill of goods by Sutton. Either way it does not matter whatsover since after it is all said & done in Jan 08 we again will be devoid of the SB Championship which is all that matters in the most ultimate end
Kurt nails it... probably even better than the sports writer for the Star-Ledger, Dave Hutchinson, nails it. But here's what he had to say today: http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1190695855245810.xml&coll=1 Chalk Up Another Problem With Jets Defense Tuesday, September 25, 2007 BY DAVE HUTCHINSON Star-Ledger Staff HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Eric Mangini's ballyhooed 3-4 defense sprung another leak in the Jets' 31-28 victory over the Miami Dolphins at Giants Stadium, and the Bills will have plenty of legally obtained videotape to view the breakdowns as they prepare for Sunday's matchup in Buffalo. First, the Jets couldn't stop the run, and still can't on a consistent basis. They haven't held an opponent to less than 100 yards rushing this season. Then, the Jets couldn't get to the quarterback or force a turnover. They didn't notch their first sack or first turnover until the Dolphins game. Opponents have dropped back to pass 99 times and completed 68. That's a 68.7 completion percentage. Now, the unit can't stop the screen pass. The Dolphins schooled the Jets on the art of executing the play, with running back Ronnie Brown (six catches, 99 yards) doing the damage. One screen pass went for a 22-yard touchdown, another was a 43-yarder that set up a touchdown and yet another was a 16-yarder that set up a field goal. Miami finished with a whopping 424 yards total offense. The Jets' subpar defensive performance against a struggling Dolphins offensive line, anchored by rookie center Samson Satele, sparks anew the debate that they simply don't have the personnel to play a 3-4 scheme and Mangini is tying to force a square peg into a round hole. On paper, there seems to be no way that a team with as much defensive talent as the Jets have -- nose tackle Dewayne Robertson, defensive end Shaun Ellis, an above-average linebacking corps led by Jonathan Vilma, sensational rookie cornerback Darrelle Revis and talented safety Kerry Rhodes -- should be giving up huge chunks of yardage every week. This season the Jets rank 27th in the NFL in total defense, allowing an embarrassing 386 yards per game. After the Dolphins game, one Jets player just shook his head in disbelief when asked how a defense with so much talent could give up so many yards. The player, who requested anonymity because he feared being fined by the club if he spoke publicly about the team's discontent, suggested that players are feeling increasingly restricted in the disciplined structure of the 3-4 alignment because they can't simply run to the ball and make plays. Ten of the Jets' 11 starters on defense come from a 4-3 scheme. Only defensive end Kenyon Coleman, a former Cowboy, has experience in the 3-4 defense. In addition, Mangini's inability to acquire a 350-pound nose tackle to anchor his defense has been criticized. He has opted to use the 310-pound Robertson and 300-pound Sione Pouha as nose tackles, and they don't command double teams. Against the banged-up Bills (0-3), the Jets can expect a healthy dose of screen passes and running plays. Rookie quarterback Trent Edwards, a third-round pick out of Stanford, will make his first NFL start in place of the injured J.P. Losman (sprained left knee) and Buffalo is sure to keep it simple. Rookie running back Marshawn Lynch (57 carries, 228 yards, two TDs) will be busy. He has also caught five passes for 36 yards. "The NFL is a copycat league, so if they see plays working and having success, they're going to come back with it." Rhodes said yesterday. "I'm sure we'll run 1,000 screens each practice (this week) to try and get it right." Said linebacker Victor Hobson: "One thing about this league is that if there's something you have a problem with, you can definitely expect to see it the next week. That's something we'll expect to see. I mean, why not? We didn't show that we could stop it." Mangini said poor tackling -- Bryan Thomas and Kenyon Coleman missed tackles on Miami's 43-yarder -- and the Dolphins' ability to use Brown on a variety of different screens attributed to the success of the plays. He said the screens were difficult to defend because there wasn't a pattern of when the Dolphins would use them. "Miami did a good job of disguising it," Jets defensive end/linebacker David Bowens said. The Jets say they don't know what to expect from the Bills and offensive coordinator Steve Fairchild. "Each guy has their own philosophy and you try to identify the fingerprint of the coordinator," Mangini said. "Some people are true copycat coordinators where if you get beat on a play, they're going to run exactly that same play. Other people will copycat in the sense that they have their playbook and their system and they'll get the play that's closest to the play you got beat on. Like with most issues, if you do expose something, people are going to figure out whether or not you fixed it."
We still have a problem with the pass rush even our 04 D didn't have a pass rush, we just need to stay on the 3-4 and bring in more talent
You know you have a serious problem when somebody is describing it and comes across as Captain Obvious. The Jets not only don't have an acceptable defense, there's no way they'll get there until they initiate a massive personnel changeover and then get the changes right.
Why play a system that requires a overhawl of personel in the 3-4 when we have a capable defense who could be very good with just a few tweaks in 4-3 system. Woudlnt it make more sense as we dont have the players for the 3-4 to play the 4-3 which would mean we dont have to get rid the core of our defense and bring in players accustomed to a 3-4. Its really puzzling to me
I'm kind of chalking this up to inexperience on the part of Mangini and Tannenbaum. I'm guessing they really thought it would be easy to make the switch from 4-3 to 3-4 and now they have this queasy situation on their hands where they have committed heavily to the 3-4 and yet most of their talent on defense can't really fit in that scheme. On the bright side they are both young and probably adaptable and hopefully have learned enough from the fiasco so far not to extend it another season. Either they get the guys to run the 3-4 successfully next year or they switch back to a 4-3 or one and maybe both of them are going to be out of a job.
H'mm in the 4-3 the most VITAL thingy is a pass rush which we do not have now or even had in Herm's day except maybe when JA came to play & in those cases most of the time it was really a 3-4 with JA being a stand up 4th L/man
Except for half of the 4 in the 4 3 including the single best defensive player on the team. Not to mention Barton after numerous injuries and now on the wrong side of 30 is nowhere near what he was in 04 at 27 and healthy.
Well then this is going to be a way long project then even I expected when I said 2010 would be earliest we would be true contenders since we DO NOT IMHO have the personnel to play a 4-3 either. As I said maybe we have 3 core players Harris, Revis & Rhodes & for the life of me I cannot understand why Harris has not been moved up into the starting lineup. Makes me really begin to really think that EM is another stubborn SOB & does not admit JV just cannot hack it at least in the 3-4 just like Herm used to do
But woudlnt it be easier to bring in a good pass rusher, than try and get most of the defense that is used to and by the sounds of it wants to play in the 4-3 playing a 3-4. I just see players like Vilma, and his talents are wasted in a 3-4 system, we dont have a suitable NT, our pass rush is non exsistent and we cant stop the run. With the personal on this team in terms of defense we should not be 27th worst in the league. Mangini in my opinion needs to realise that its not working, and revert back to the 4-3 (Which im sure will do better this season as it is than what a 3-4 will do) and then look to a Pass rusher in the draft?? Its hard to cut ties with soemthing you have tried to implement but if its for the good of the team i think it should be done
PRers just do not fall off trees in NFL. No difference then last off season when the cry was for a NT & look what we got nothing but TC fodder. As for JV he IMHO was also way over matched in the 4-3 since most of his tackles were 5 or more yds DF with hardly any tackles for losses or no gains. Those stats on him have been posted many, many times here over the last year
So do you think that the team we have is more suited to a 3-4, or are you saying that in time it would be easier to get players to fit a 3-4 defense. I know pass rushers are not exactly on every corner, but if you look at the 08 draft there seems to be a few good pass rushers that will be availble. Derrek Harvey, Tommy Blake, Quinten Groves, all in my opinion very good pass rushers aswell as Wallce Gillsbery. I just think that we have more players suited to a 4-3 and it would be easier to get more players to complete a good 4-3 system than it would for a 3-4, obviously just my opinion and im no expert, but the way defense is playing right now, soemthing has to be done
