Youtube has some incredible video's on Toon, he was some player, also, there is 1 on Ken O'Brien, he was a lot better then most people remember or give him credit for, Can't post them but check them ooy
O' Brien and Toon will both be remembered as Jets greats (OK, I'm biased because they were playing when I first started watching NFL). Just because we weren't lucky enough to snare Rice and Marino doesn't mean that our draft picking was unsuccesful.
I have some VIDEOS that I need to upload from VHS. Interviews and highlight reels of Kenny, Al , Wes and Micky Shula. IF they still play. Tried to play some old cassettes the other day and they were F'd up.
Jets could have had Marino too. Hindsight is always 20/20. Jets could have had Tom Brady...Steve Young from the USFL....Perhaps they could have drafted Walter Payton too.
we had a terrible offensive line in front of o'brien. when given time he had a cannon.we toon walker and shuler. now put marino back there with his quick release and we are 10 times better.
This is a fantastic post. Both KOB and Toon were pro bowlers and at one time were one of the best passing Duos in the league. Hard to argue w/ their draft selections. People forget that both Rice AND Marino were considered draft day gambles. Rice had the shaky 40 time and the small school background while Marino had the alleged character issues. In no way were either considered no brainers heading into draft day. As for Rice over Toon...Rice was the superior player but let's not forget that they were different style recievers playing in very different systems.Rice was a smooth precise route runner who could make people miss after the catch, while Toon was a tall physical Possession guy who could beat you deep but wasn't the greatest after the catch. I often get annoyed by those who crown Jerry Rice as the be all end all for all time great wide recievers. I'm not debating that he wasn't an amazing player and is the best ever. But let's not forget that he played in an extremely groundbreaking and innovative scheme that not only fit his skills perfectly, but also his QB. That certainly helps when you're building a legacy.
What's really amazing about Rice's 1987 season is that he did all of that in only 12 games. 22 TD's in 12 games!!!!!!
The offensive line was the key, it was just that offensive. O'Brien was sacked probably more than any QB in league history for the amount of games he played. If the Jets had a better O-Line both O'Brien and Toon would have had much more productive careers. I've always thought Toon would have been a hall of famer if he went to SF instead of to the Jets.
As bad as that O-line was, KOB's slow release did not help matters. KOB was a smart,tough QB w/ a huge arm...but he had one of the slowest releases of his era.
You could have switched these two on teams and it could have been Toon with three rings and Rice with a series of head traumas. I believe that Toon was every bit as good as Rice, or at least had the potential to be. Sometimes a little luck and good timing make all the difference in separating great players from the legends.
The first games I watched featured Kenny at QB, and even though I didn't know that much, I used to yell at the TV - "Throw the damn ball!!" Defenders crashing in from every angle.
Early in their careers it was a credible comparison. Rice played for Walsh/Seifert with Montana throwing him the ball, Toon for Walton/Coslet with O"Brien throwing him the ball. There's the difference between Canton and concussions.
He was also one of the most accurate passers we've ever had. As others have said, the poor o-line never helped the situation. Anyway, who knows what would have happened? Mark Moseley still gives me nightmares 23 years later.
The O-line was still pretty good when O'Brien first took over and he still got sacked 62 times in 1985. The bright side is he threw very few INTs, but he killed a lot of drives by not throwing the ball away or getting rid of it fast enough. One reason his accuracy was so high in terms of completion pct was he never got rid of the ball and took too many sacks. Plus, he couldn't get out of his own way, any hint of pressure and the play was over.
The team was 11-5, Freeman McNeil and Johnny Hector both had productive seasons at RB. When Pat Ryan came in, who didn't have much arm but could move, the sacks went away. Some of it was the O-line, a lot of it was O'Brien.
