I may get attacked for this, but I don't think that is the case, considering that half of the guys caught with steroids were pitchers, the only reason why we don't hear about pitchers is because we go crazy over the HR stat, and just assume that you have to be huge to be on steriods, but that is only if you work out on those areas, with steriods a fringe player that throws in the mid 80s all of a sudden throws in the low 90s, and the recovery time is also faster after each appearance, and ironically enough after all the talk about finally addressing the steriod problem HRs have been up instead of down, the steriod being a hitter thing is more something that the media overblown so they can get a story
I can definitely agree with that logic. Especially the media aspect of it and the fact that Clemens name has popped up yet they leave it alone. If Rocket is Juicing (Not accusing him here) then he falls in line right with your logic.
No offense taken, and I never thought that it was anything personal. I hope that you also realize that my responses were not meant to be an attack either, in any way. Yeah, but he went 1 for 4 tonight, so there really isn't anything to talk about with respect to him. :lol:
You make a very good point. I firmly believe there are many pitchers doping. At the same time, so still are many hitters. Anyone that believes that just because baseball has "cracked down" the problem is even remotely fixed isn't paying enough attention. Either the testing system is a total crock, or guys are using undetectable juice. Regardless, guys are still doing it, and the numbers still show it. The reason a hitter has an advantage over a pitcher, when both are using steroids is simple. It doesn't matter how hard a guy throws, it doesn't make him a great pitcher. Vlad Guerrero has one of the most powerful arms I have ever seen, but he isn't a pitcher. Steroids can give your fastball movement, or your curve more break. On the other hand, steroids not only make a hitter stronger, and give them extra bat speed, but they also increase the hand-to-eye coordination and reflexes required to hit a ball coming at you at 90mph. (I didn't know this was even the case until the beginning of this season. I was always on Bonds side, with the opinion that "Hey, so what, he's strong, it doesn't make him a better hitter." Then my brother showed me some articles regarding research into steroids, all of which concluded that steroids actually makes you a better hitter. Strange, but true.) Now if you take for argument's sake that Clemmens juices, then there is a good example of your point. He is a very good pitcher without the juice, but with the juice, he can throw harder for longer periods. But how many pitchers are there out there like that? Not nearly as many hitters benefitting from the 'roids. I hope this doesn't sound like a flame because that wasn't the intention. I hear your point, and I don't totally disagree. Surely substances are helping fringe pitchers be more successful. All I am saying is that those same substances are making more fringe hitters a lot better.
Okay cool. I didn't take anything you said offensively. I find your posts very intelligent, and I admit I am learning from them. I love conversations like this. People like yourself and 3rd make very clear points, and that's the whole point of posting isn't it? Get your points across, and see if you can open some eyes. Yeah well, I said it this morning. After last night, he has proven that I was right joining the anti-ARod club. The whole team is annoying me. The Royals should not be this competitive against playoff contenders. The only somewhat comforting thing is that they are doing it to everyone in the race.
Now see we don't know that for sure since baseball withhold that information, but as for your point you need skill whether you are a hitter or a pitcher to fully utilizes the advantage of steroids, although when you say that it helps a hitter more, I don't agree completely, you are right that no matter how hard a guy throws it doesn't make him a great pitcher, however with work and adjustment it can help him greatly, like you said steriods can give you more break on your curve or give you fastball morement as well as more speed. Just like Joe Schmo can't just take steriods and all of a sudden become a 40 HR hitter every year. The hitter still needs the skill to be able to use the advantage to be a better hitter. Now using a slightly different example like if a guy that already has low 90s fastball and a ok curve, with steriods he all of a sudden has 95-97 mph with a nasty curve, with enough of a brain to use this to his advantage all of a sudden becomes a much better pitcher P.S. HAHA what a hijacking of a thread :lol:
I think you misread my post. I said steroids cannot make a pitcher's curve break harder, or put more movement on a fastball. That is a skill that has to be developed individually. I agree that juicing would allow a pitcher to throw for longer periods, but it still comes down to the "bite" he has on his pitches. Throwing 90 right down the middle is the key ingredient to handing out homers for free. In the case of a hitter, I used to believe what you said, that the player has to have the skill to begin with, but that isn't necessarily the case. As I said, steroids have been found to increase hand-to-eye coordination, and reflexes. Those are the key components to hitting. Bat speed is the number one component of hitting a home run. Now if you mix this with actual skill, like the case of Bonds, you wind up with a guy who can hit 70 home runs in a season. And yes, this was a total hijack of the thread. Apologies to all.
