Monte Kiffin perfected and installed the Tampa 2 system. If you'll remember correctly, it was those defenses that carried that team year after year with the offense sputtering and doing jackshit. Dungy rode Kiffin's success in Tampa, then leached off Peyton Manning at Indy.
Put it this way: he'd have accomplished fuckall without Monte Kiffin. And thus probably wouldn't have even landed a second coaching gig. What was his contribution in Indy? Peyton Manning was the offense, akin to an OC. Tom Moore stayed on that staff anyways. Dungy installed the Tampa 2 and it was garbage every year but 06, coincidentally the year they got it done. The fact they only won 1 SB with Peyton Manning Quarterbacking that team is proof that Dungy is a siv imo. Caldwell got to the SB his first fuckin year.
I agree entirely, and I find it curious that the media narrative always seems to be "Gruden was only able to win a Super Bowl with Dungy's team" instead of "Dungy was never able to win a Super Bowl with the best team in football."
What is "fuckall"? You were just a young kid when the Buccaneers were consistently pathetic. Any head coach who was ever going to turn that team into a winner was going to be lauded. The guy was an excellent assistant coach with the Vikings. Are you upset because the Jets didn't hire Dungy after the Coslet era? Go read Dungy's first book if you think the guy was a brainless figurehead. Read it and get back to this thread in a few weeks. We'll discuss this issue at that time.
Who did you think was the best team in football- the '99 Buccaneers, the '05 Colts? The former had a so-so at best QB and the latter had defensive issues.
I never questioned his skills as an assistant, or his football background. My point is that he's overrated and wouldn't have won anything without Monte Kiffin, and wouldn't have landed the Indy job without Monte Kiffin. And, no, I'm not mad that the Jets didn't hire him, although if I had to choose between Dungy or Da Herm, I'd go with your boy Dungy. Btw: Fuckall means nothing. Ie) Josh McDaniels has accomplished fuckall without Tom Brady.
If you want to say he is overrated, I have to first know where he rates. I don't think anyone considers him a top 20 coach of all-time. He does have a very good record, though. It just seemed to me that you completely discredited him. I happen to think it is unfair to discredit any head coach who wins a Super Bowl championship no matter which QB is on the team or who are the assistant coaches.
Understandable. I came across harsh and that's probably because I don't like how he shoves Christianity down everyones throats as if it's essential in football. You're right, he obviously did something right if he has a ring, but I stand by my statement that he would have done none of the things he did without Monte Kiffin's innovation, and wouldn't have landed his second job if not for Monte Kiffin. Not really in the mood to create an all-time HC ranking list, but if you were to ask me who was a better HC: Jon Gruden or Tony Dungy, I'd tell you Jon Gruden 10 times out of 10.
I do think that the Bucs were a better team than the Rams in '99 (though that's a controversial position that I don't expect many people to agree with me on,) and I think that Tampa clearly underachieved with Dungy as coach for the next two seasons (which is the reason that he got fired.) He wasn't a terrible coach or anything, but I definitely think that he's overrated. And I agree with Jake, I'd take Gruden over him without thinking twice.
