No matter who was winning the race, trading for a Hall of Famer who had the season he had the year before made sense at the time. Only the Jets being the Jets did we end up with the black cloud of death looming over Favre... and eventual disaster. I'm starting to become a believer of some kind of evil curse haunting us. :lol:
Completion rate doesn't matter to me if you're throwing 3 yard passes on 3rd and 12. QB rating is also meaningless when you're not putting up points. Pennington sucked in '07 and so did Clemens.
I don't know. If you have a young QB who you think is going to be the leader of your team for years do you then trade for another player you hope will put the young guy on the bench for another two years, essentially sitting him for the first five years of his career? In addition, although it's only rumor the media has said the Jets are split on Clemens and Ratliff. If they felt Clemens was truly the answer would Ratliff even be in the picture at this point? Finally, my assessment of Clemens is not founded just in the stats. It comes from watching him play. I've seen a lot of QBs over the years and I just don't like what I see in Clemens. He doesn't look like a franchise QB when he's on the field. That may not prove anything, but it's part of my evaluation process.
true... behind our current line anyone with patience and and knowledge of the system (plus some talent) has an opportunity to be effective
And what was he able to accomplish with that 86.1 QB rating? Nothing. As bad as Clemens looked and as terrible as his stats were, when he took risks he put us in a position to win games and that's what matters.
Well, some of the reports which were posted here from people who ACTUALLY attended training camp at Hofstra reported virtually the same things the beat writers did with how Clemens and Chad were coming along and how eventually Clemens up to par with Chad. Not better. But they were the same. In other words, TIED with regards to who was winning the competition. Brett Favre came later and had very little to nothing to do with the competition that took place between Chad and Clemens. So, unless you personally went to some practices, and took notes, I'd have to assume that it is you who doesn't know what he's talking about.
The offense was the same for both. What else is there to rate them on? It wasn't the line, as bad as they were, that caused Clemens to miss his receivers by 5 yards. It was he alone.
What? We know the team accomplished nothing. That is obvious. We are talking about the QB that basically split the year and what they accomplished and it's pretty obvious who was the more productive of the two. It's also obvious to anybody with even one eye half open what the Jets have thought about Clemens ever since then. Keep dreaming that he will be the Jets starter this year or any year.
Again, they both sucked. They were both ineffective regardless of what numbers you want to post. Reason would say that a guy getting his first ever NFL experience would be worse than a guy with 6 years as a starter under his belt. The terrible o-line only complicates matters for a guy who hasn't had the game slow down for him yet.
Only if you have to sell PSLs. I honestly think that was the primary motivation for the trade. I'm not sure I can buy the "4-12 to Superbowl in one season" plan. I also don't think they truly planned to have Brett here for more than the one season. As it stands, Kellen is entering his 4th season. He sat for 3, although started in the middle of year 2. He was viewed as a developmental QB with good tools coming out. 3 years isn't too long to develop him. Let's see what we have now. I also have to admit that part of my judgment is based on having seen a large number of his games at Oregon. I was high on him in 2006, but I didn't figure he'd be an immediate starter. I'm as big of a fan of throwing out mindless stats as you are, so we agree there. They don't reflect the situation. We just have different views on that situation. As far as the split, I'd say Ryan wants to see what he has in both QBs. The tape he has on Ratliff is promising, so I'm sure he's going to try to give the team its best chance for success. Schottenheimer will certainly provide some input, but he's the only one left to give that input. I'm sure Ryan wants to make the determination for himself. Ditto for Daboll.
How about wins? In a team where both QB's were pretty terrible, behind an even shittier offensive line, where would W's rank in judging both of these QB's only in 2007? This would be my guess since everything else was a constant and the only variable in this case appeared to be the QB's.
The more productive of the two was Clemens. Pennington looked even worse out there and made just as many terrible throws, if not more. Clemens came within a JMac-drop of reaching .500, which is not all too shabby when you stop and think about it and what he had to work with.
For those who don't write off Clemens, what exactly have you seen that the rest of us are missing? He didn't have a great run as a starter, he had a nice 2007 preseason, and he had a bad preseason last year. He doesn't get glowing praise from training camp. He's not a big guy as far as QBs go. He's got a nice arm, I'll give you that. He doesn't look good in the pocket and he's made a lot of bad decisions when he did play. So other than he played behind a crappy line, outside of few good throws as a starter, what exactly do you guys see in Clemens? Other than the fact he was a second round pick, why do you think he deserves a shot?
Thank you. Aside from the fact the article quoted the opinion of reporters, the TC news was that Clemens improved as camp went on, and in any event there were no confirmed reports that Chad had him beaten.
For me it's two things. Mostly I want to see what he can do after having been in the same system for 3 years. He got to learn behind to seasoned vets, one of them who will be in the HOF in 2014. The second thing is the promise he showed under pressure in the 4th quarter of the Baltimore game against a great defense. He showed the ability to attack a great defense and keep them on there heels when the game was on the line. Granted, we lost the game and he didn't show a heck of a lot after that but he showed a lot of potential in that 4th quarter. I want a QB who can move the chains and attack a great defense when the game is on the line. I am by no means sold on him, I really want to see what Ratty can do too, but I don't think it's time to give up on him just yet. If he can't win the competition this year he'll likely end up as a career backup.
I hate to write off a player who had some potential based on what he did in half a season behind a shitty line in 07, and having a poor pre-season in 08 after knowing he wouldn't start. I'm assuming we don't have to have some kind of stellar QB to run the show around here because Rex is going to make this about his defense and the running game. All he would require is for Clemens or Ratliff to manage the game. I'm not 100% sold on either because they both have some upside as well as a downside to their game. But whoever starts next year will be on a short leash, that's for sure. I'm hoping Ratliff DOES work out tho. We'll just have to wait and see what happens at training camp. One thing I'm certain we SHOULDN'T do is draft Freeman.
First let me say this was a great post and not just "he sucks" or "draft him". My Take: Kelen Clemens - I agree with original poster an everything. Put a fork in him. Brett Ratliff - "Can he do it in a real game under pressure?" I have an idea that he can be the guy! At best he becomes this years Cassel and at worst he gives a Kellen impressing and we move on. I say he starts this season! Erik Ainge - "He's got good size, a good arm, and has a good pedigree." Agreed! Give him time at #2 behind Brett and if Brett should fall, let him have time as the starter to see if he can be the guy. We drafted him for a reason and his college stats are far better than Freeman's, even against better oponents. Matt Sanchez - If Sanchez falls to the Jets at 17 I would be very surprized to see us pass on him. We have let too many QBs pass us by in the past three years. Only if the FO is sold on Brett will we let Sanchez get by us. If we sign Sanchez, Kellen will be gone by the start of the regular season. We can't have Sanchez looking over his sholder all the time, he woulod have enough NY ppressure as it is. Josh Freeman - No way take him at 17. However, if Sanchez is gone at 17 and Freeman in there when we pick in the 2nd round the Jets might draft him. I personnally think he is this years Kellen and I don't like the idea of him coming to the Jets. He is less accurate than Kellen and eccept for a three games span against small schools, he would have 30 TDs and 32 Ints over the last three years. Hardly something to write home about. Garcia, Young, Losman, Leftwich, Warner, Cutler, etc. - "Forget another old vet." Unless Rex wants a safety net at QB we will say no. Let me say, Cutler is not an old vet and I would take him for our 1st round pick (#17) any day. :up: As for as an older vet, the only one that might have a chance is Leftwich and I still say NO! Worst case: Give Brett 8 games to see if he is for real, and if he fails, start Eric for the last eight games. Kellen had his eight plus three years on the team and showed nothing to make me think he will ever be the guy.
Because Chad would complete a bunch of 5 yard dumpoffs and the writers would rave about his great pre-season?
