You're missing my point. It'd be one thing if you were saying, "This trade hasn't worked out for the Yanks so far." Or, "This hasn't been a good trade for the Yanks." But to say it's NOT a good trade based on one season (not even) is silly. On paper when the trade was made, the deal made sense. That will never change. Five years from now, people might wish that they held on to Jackson or Coke or Kennedy. That probably won't be the case, but I would at least understand the sentiment if we were hearing that five years from now. Bitching about it now, though is just ludicrous. That's just crazy talk. Oh come on. You care about "right now" but have been bitching all year about trading prospects and a middle reliever for a player in their prime? That doesn't seem like you care very much about right now. There's little evidence that Kennedy would be doing much more than Moseley has for the Yanks, and I don't know how many times I have to say it, but you don't count on performance from middle relievers from year to year. The nice thing about message boards is that it prevents this kind of revisionist history. Should I go back and find the posts where even you agreed that what Damon was asking for was unreasonable and Cashman shouldn't do the deal? (I believe 2/$20M was Yanks' offer, which Boras/Damon turned down.... then the Yanks went shopping elsewhere.) So please don't turn around now give me this BS about how it was Cashman "swinging his dick" at Boras. You're missing the point of my confusion. How do you get angry over an injury? At anyone? What, if Cashman actually traded prospects, he then should have known that Berkman would roll his ankle? Or was Berkman the one who should have known and avoided that play? This makes no sense. Anger at avoidable circumstances, I can see. Anger at an injury based on cost of the player? Weirdsville. Are you going to start an irrational hatred of Granderson now? I like your style.
Nice win. I just wish Mitre had been a little more reliable so guys didn't have to get up and start warming. It's nice that Hughes got pulled early. Save every inning whenever you can.
What? Berkman to the DL? Can Cashman ever pick up anybody that doesn't land on the DL? Ever? Must be a prerequisite for him.
Not that it makes Don's point any less ridiculous, but it's only a matter of time before Wood's duct tape arm falls off again.
Well, this isn't good. Pettitte not back until mid september at the earliest. Maybe not at all this year. Too bad Cashman couldn't get the deal done with Lee. They also plan on shutting down Hughes after another 30 innins or so but then the clock restarts in the playoffs..somebody please explain that logic? Oh, nm, it's Cashman. Anyway, starting pitching might be a problem..hopefully Burnette gets it back in time. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/andy-pettitte-unlikely-to-return-before-mid-september.php
They're just trying not to overwork him. But when you have a chance to compete for WS title, you go for it. All hands on deck. Really, though, he's 24 now. He's physically mature enough that they shouldn't have to worry about how many innings he throws.
I agree with that except why have an artificial inning count to begin with? It's not like this is his first year in the league.
It's not artificial, though. They've said since the beginning of the year that they've wanted him to throw around 175-180 innings, and that the playoffs wouldn't count toward that. They just didn't want a pitcher who hadn't thrown more than 150 innings in a season to go out and throw 240 innings, probably for effectiveness as much as health. If he finishes out the year in the rotation and averages six innings per start, he'll finish with close to 190 innings. So I don't think they're going to do anything drastic, if at all.
Does this mean Nova will finally get the call up? I'm a little worried about Hughes taking a lot of time between his last season start and the playoffs. 30 innings is another 4-5 starts, that would be around mid-September, right? So it would leave like 2 weeks in between. That's a lot of time to build up rust. It's also going to make our rotation really ugly next month. CC, AJ, Javy, Moseley, and ? That's one ace and a whole cast of question marks. Not really comforting in a race where we're running neck-and-neck with the Rays.
As a not-so-wise man once said, "you play to win the game." The Yankees would like to protect Hughes' arm as much as possible, but if they need to exceed his innings limit by 20-30 or so to win a World Series, that's a no brainer. As for the "artificial limit," it's not about how many innings he can throw; it's about how many more he can throw than the year before. If he were 30 years old and in his prime, it would be just as bad an idea to make him throw 100 more innings than he ever has in his life. At the risk of sounding like Michael Kay, the evidence for why we should be careful with Hughes' arm is sitting right in the Yankees bullpen. I bet that they keep Nova in the minors until September, by the way. If it's only a difference of 1-2 starts, I'm sure they'd rather not have to DFA Mitre or Gaudin.
I doubt they shut him down like that. Like I said, he can make all his starts from here on out (seven or eight, depending on whether they skip him once), pitch six innings each start, and finish about 10 innings over the limit they have for him. I doubt they sweat it too much, especially since he doesn't need to go six innings in each start once the rosters expand. Yeah, but they're up seven for a playoff spot, and really, that's all that matters. Nova should be up once the rosters expand. Pettitte should be back by mid-September. So it's not like they have those four guys and some mystery chump for the rest of the season. Everyone needs to be cool.
Yeah, but he is in his 7th year. Are they going to wait until he retires to say no more inning counts?
It's his seventh year of pro ball, yeah, but that first year was at age 18 in 2004, and he threw all of five innings. In 2005, he threw 86 innings, and he has never thrown more than 150 in a season. Injury concerns should be minimal at this age, but they're still there, especially if they put him 80 innings over his previous high. Besides - like I said above - I think effectiveness plays as much of a role as long-term health here. If he's going to be starting for them in the playoffs, I'm sure they'd prefer that he's not already at 210 innings and really heading into uncharted territory stamina-wise for the most important games of the season. Next year there will be no innings limit.
Few things: 1) Someone at work made a point to me about Hughes. It's more likely they push back a couple starts rather than shut him down at the end of the year. If you slide back a Tuesday start to Friday, for example, it would wind up just as effective as flat out skips. That makes more sense and I hadn't honestly thought of it like that before. 2) I'm certain Nova will be called up in September, but wouldn't he be ineligible for the postseason? If, heaven forbid, Andy can't come back, that leaves a massive hole in the rotation and pushes Vazquez into a prominent postseason role, as well as putting more reliance on AJ to be consistently good. Not that a young rookie is reliable either, but Vazquez is clearly struggling and we all know we need to pray for Dr. Jekyll when AJ is on the mound and hope Mr. Hyde comes out after the game. 3) I think it's crazy to think that the Yankees aren't doing the right thing with Hughes. He's got a long career ahead of himself. I want to take every precaution possible to assure he stays healthy. I'd even accept an innings limit next year if they Yankees felt it necessary.
If Pettitte is still hurt enough that he won't be pitching in the playoffs, Nova would be allowed to take his spot, despite not being called up by the Aug 31st deadline. You are allowed to replace injured players with anyone as long as they play the same position. Every precaution? Maybe he should only start ten games per season. It's ridiculous, of course. I understand some caution this year (although I strongly doubt 200 innings is going to hurt him), but next year, it's completely unnecessary.
For better or worse, the Yankees postseason success is going to be tied to AJ Burnett. Last year, despite a few clunkers, he came through for us in a big way. If we're going to repeat, we'll need him to at least keep us in games. Like I said above, it's not about the total number of innings but about the increase from the year before. Provided that he's healthy, nothing will limit Hughes' innings next season.
He pitched 150 innings in 2006. We shouldn't be talking about inning counts 4 years later. You yourself spout the +30 rule or whatever it is. Of course maybe what you are saying is that Cashman has so abused him just like he did with Chamberlain they are basically starting over.
