Drob was not a bust. Whenever i see someone saying Drob is a bust on these forums I kinda wonder how much they know about football. A real bust is giving your number 1 draft choice for Doug Jolley.
I think death before retirement gives a player a free pass on being a bust. I couldn't call him a bust out of courtesy for his life. Thats cruel even for my standards.
It's posts like this that make HIM wonder how much YOU really know about how much I really know about football.
Well, when you got a guy that has started for the last 4 years its kind of harsh to call him a bust. A disappointment would be closer to the truth. A bust is someone that was a complete waste of your teams resources.
The thought process going into DRob is the $, time and expectations. Having your name called #4 overall whether you deserve it or not places great pressure on that player. I don't think DRob should have been selected their either, but he was, and therefore the NFL world would agree that he needs to play to that draft position, even though he shouldn't go there. He was damned the minute Boobway traded up for him. The money he is given in his contract make the situation worse. He is the prime example of a non-bust player being a bust in terms of draft position alone. Its a pure paradox. Nobody on either side wins with him as the example. Brick can be a bust at #4 if he is not a 10 yr starter with a min. of 2 Hawaii Visits, due to the skill set he posesses. If he is off this team by the end of his contract and then is career backup, then he is a bust... But his skill level is good enough to be starting 10 yrs and i believe he will make a Pro-Bowl. Our whole left side of the O-Line can now make the pro bowl.
Good points, and herein lies the problem with the generic term "bust" - I don't think you can apply a "global" meaning to the term. A player can be a bust for a team, but not as a player (Farve example). In the Carter example, you and Cakes say he's a bust because of the value of the pick (nothing in return). To me, bust refers to a players ability combined with a few other factors (when taken versus projection, length of duration with team, etc.). I can't consider a player a bust if they've never taken the field. I can't fault the Bengals for making that selection. Going to the Abyz poll, I don't think any of the items by itself would be a global meaning. Rather a combination of them and/or other factors would be more appropriate. For example, would you consider a 6th or 7th rounder that's a "waste of roster space" a bust? Most of these guys aren't expected to make the final roster. What about a 4th or 5th rounder? These guys are at least expected to contribute on ST so I guess they're busts if they are a "waste of a roster space". However, not much is expected of them in the first place. To me a 3rd rounder is a "Gray" area. Schlegal is a complete bust IMO not only because of playing ability, but that he was taken in the 3rd instead of the 6th - this you have a combo of ability and value. A 1st or 2nd rounder that is a waste of roster space is defintely a bust because of value and expectations. More food for thought: Lets look at Jeff Lageman. He was a good not great player who had his better days as a Jag. I don't think you can consider him a bust overall, but he probably was from the Jets standpoint. He was taken way too early by most experts, played good but wasn't dominant on the Jets, and was never re-signed. Further, to what level should a 1st rounder play? I think that a top 10 player is expected to be a pro bowler, but what about the 30th pick? If that player turns out to be an average player, but starts from day one and has 7-8 seasons - is that player a bust? I could write a thesis on this subject, but I really think "bust" is very subjective. From the poll standpoint, I would say a combination of the 3, none by itself.
Agreed. I guess it's really a matter of perspective. Is the actual player a "bust" or is the "bust" the pick that the team used to acquire said player?
That's pretty much my definition too. It's all about the money and how they perform in relation to what they are getting paid and the pick(s) used to obtain them. Right now, I put Thomas Jones in that category for the Jets. We used the #6 pick in the second round and gave him 12 million in guarantees. ! TD for all of that is a complete bust and I don't care how bad our OL was last year.
Getting at here.... I read the boards frequently but just don't have the heart to post much anymore....too much mess on here now a days....BUT...I see what you are getting at here...and the answer is no. Robertson and Thomas are not busts...they may not be what WE expected of them...but each has been a productive starter for some time with the Jets....most definitely NOT busts. Peace The Mezz
Mezz as probably the most respected poster on the board I gotta know...Pennington....Kellen or a diferent direction
#1 To me, a bust is someone that didn't live up to their draft position: eg. D-slob at #4 overall, Schlegel in the third round, Hobson in the second round, etc., but that is a matter of opinion and I wouldn't call you out for it, hence the poll. #2 The reason I called you out is because we never gave up a 1st rounder for Doug "wtf-coulda-been-miller" Jolley, we simply moved down a few draft spots for him. Calling out others' football knowlege in the same post as displaying a lack of your own was something I found ironic, and is why I said something...either way, no big deal
And it's posts like this that make me wonder how much he wonders about you wondering about how much we really know about football.
Well, if you want to be technical here, Bell was retired before he died. He played his last game with San Diego in 1982. He died on November 28, 1984. There should be no gray area here. Either a guy is a bust or he is not a bust.
I don't think it's fair to judge anyone from last years disaster of a team. You could just as easily say Mangold is a bust based on last years performance. About the only good players last year were Revis and Harris. I do think you can place a lot of the blame on the line for TJ's lack of TD's, especially the red zone blocking. I think this argument would carry more weight if someone else, like Leon rushed for 5 or 6 TD's. As far as the draft pick, we traded down in the same round so it cost very little from that standpoint. As far as the money, you really have to wait until the contract is completed (or if his released before then) to make an evaluation.
If I want to get really technical, we didn't lose a pick for Thomas Jones, we only traded down. And then we selected David Harris... I'm not too upset with his performance last year because of that and due to the fact that we weren't in the red zone ever and when we were it was kindergarten pussy playcalling, and fade routes until it was time for a FG. If he vindicates himself next year with a 1300 yd season and 7 TDs, he is tied with Abe/Mangold for best offseason draft trade in the last 8 years.
I agree i still find that impressive to do behind the 30th best O-line, but his expectations are what i posted before. I really do expect that this year out of him. He is that talented.
