Tell that to all the students on unprescribed Adderall at colleges around the nation. Perhaps I would've had a better overall class ranking if those kids weren't "cheating." Sorry. Not buying it.
The issue that I have with this statement is, that more than likely everyone around you would be using as well. You would only be equaling the talent that's around you. Me personally, If I could hang without it, than there would be no reason to use, but once my career starts going down hill, or I suffer career ending injuries, than yes I'd consider it.
Well, I wasn't really trying to pidgeon-hole the conversation. I shouldn't have wrote my first post the way that I did, because it sounds like I was putting specific qualifiers on the reason you would use some enhancer. My question was really "Would you ever use performance enhancers?" Basically, is there any reason in your mind that you would? For me, I'd do it if it propelled me into more cash. If it were to save my career, probably. If it were simply to recover from an injury, I'd probably skip it and just rehab.
College kids take drugs these days in order to do better in school? Back in the day they were strictly for recreation. I weep for the future of this country.
Adderall has a hell of a market at colleges. I keep resisting it even though I do know people who I could get it from. To be honest, I barely knew it was a problem until late my freshman year. I'd probably get a lot more studying in if I took adderall, but I don't want to start because then I'd want to get it for more tests.
not buying what? If they had improved performance because of illegal substances, then that's an unfair advantage. Are you intentionally being obtuse? I've never seen Adderall at my college, but it probably is popular at most colleges. Now I get to brag about my accomplishments and call them "all natural", because I don't use drugs of any kind, ever.
I'm not buying that college kids taking Adderall is viewed in the same light as athletes taking performance-enhancing drugs in society overall, just because you (genuinely or not) said that it's an unfair advantage. I'd be willing to bet that, before this thread, never in your life would you have made even the slightest bit of a stink about other kids taking Adderall and its effect on your standing in whatever school you intended. And I bet it doesn't even bother you now. Perhaps it's because you never knew of it, but that also proves my point. Performance enhancing drugs in sports have had a negative stigma around them for who knows how long... but in nearly every other aspect of life, it's not the case. Maybe you're the exception who hates chemical alterations of any kind. In that case, good for you. You're consistent in your beliefs, and I respect that. I hope you also respect my stereotypical assumption that you're probably not much fun to hang out with, either. :drunk: :smile: No. I'm apparently just not getting my point across. Let me make it simple: Your singular opinion regarding the equality of PEDs in sports and in schools - while duly noted - is not enough to overrule the vast amounts of evidence I've seen that says they are most certainly not treated equally. Again, good for you... but again, not buying it. You might hold that opinion, but it only tells me that you're an extreme exception in our society. Most people that I know view performance enhancing drugs in a scholastic setting... or in any competitive setting within their own lives... as being perfectly "within the rules"... and yet the same people view often performance enhancing drugs in sports as the debbil's work. So good for you if your opinion is consistent. (Although something tells me your opinion regarding PEDs in sports is slightly stronger than your opinion regarding students taking Adderall and outperforming you in school.)
What the hell is adderall? All I have to say is make a 16 hour bus ride from Lakewood, NJ to Columbus, GA or an 11 hour bus ride from Springfield MO to Midland TX and you might change your tune. We were pretty lucky in the Pioneer League as our longest bus ride was Missoula to Casper which was pushing 10 hours. After you've see the way things get done in the minors especially at the lower levels you are willing to do many things you may not have considered to make sure you don't have a repeat performance at those lower levels.
Short answer: It's basically speed. Longer answer: Adderall is an amphetamine. It's used to treat ADD, since it improves the user's ability to focus. It's popular with many students because it allows them not only the ability to pull an all-nighter, if need be, but also allows them to study much more efficiently, since their ability to focus is improved. No more needing to re-read passages because of drifting off or lost concentration. No de-railed train of thought in the middle of working through a long problem. But it's also a controlled substance, and is illegal to have without a prescription. Some students receive prescriptions by "pretending" to have ADD and going through the proper channels... Other students without prescriptions buy it from the ones who do. It's prevalent on many campuses now, and while there is some concern about the possibility for abuse and the students' health in general, my initial reason for bringing this up... and I apologize for getting this thread somewhat sidetracked, that was not my intent... my initial reason was that you never hear about how these students have "obtained their grades illegally" or that they're ruining the integrity of academia by using a PED, although the two situations can be rather comparable. For example, three of my five classes this semester were graded on a curve that sets the average grade in the class to a B-/C+, with additional adjustments necessary if someone gets a perfect score. If 10% of the struggling or middling students took Adderall (a low estimate, in my opinion), and that improved their performance on the exams by 20 points, that could pull the class average up by two entire points. If one of those "superstar" students aces the test, it could affect the way the scores for the entire rest of the class is viewed, since his "illegally obtained grades" are the new standard.
No need to apologize for a derailment. As far as I'm concerned, this is quite relevant to the topic. Your point is wholly valid within the context of the discussion. As has been said since we only "knew" it was Bonds and Canseco, "cheating is cheating". Just because school isn't a sport does not mean it's not competitive. An advantage via illegal means is cheating, no matter the situation, or however you attempt to paint it. That's very interesting info Cappy. Thanks for that.
Personally, I don't care. But I don't care that much about PEDs in sports, either (aside from the health concerns and the image it sends). I'm not concerned about the "integrity of the game" and never really have been, any more than the majority of people (students and non-students alike) are concerned about Adderall on campus. The only thing that makes me raise an eyebrow are the people who view the two situations completely differently. For example, one of my classmates likes to perch up on a high horse about steroid use in baseball... really preachy. But he'll pop a few Adderall before an exam. That doesn't match up... ...which is why I tend to believe that - for the people who express the most moral outrage over PEDs in baseball - it has less to do with actual personal principles or ideals (although that might play a part), and more to do with some kind of warped combination of feelings of betrayal regarding hero worship, aping a story that the talking heads shove down our throats, and some kind of perverse glee that people get from watching famous people squirm.
Viagra? Yes. Something that was going to kill me at 52? No. The really ironic thing about the steroids abuse is that it's going to shorten the lives of the people who took it significantly at the same time as society is finally breaking through with the longevity protocols and drugs that should extend life past 100 for many people. Barry Bonds is going to be dying in a decade and prolonging his life with artificial methods that basically let him stay even with the damage he's done to himself. Assuming Derek Jeter hasn't done steroids he'll be spending his money figuring out how to live to 140... Talk about a deal with the devil.
you're wrong. Any unfair advantage bothers me. I would be extremely bothered if there were people outperforming me in school who I knew were cheating and/or using unfair advantages.
that's a cop out. Other students taking Aderall doesn't affect me personally, but clean students who did have their grades affected by it would have the right to complain. Just like clean athletes would.
No, they wouldn't. If they studied harder and didn't rely on the curve, it wouldn't be a problem. That's why curves are stupid to begin with. I just took the easiest stats class in the history of the world. It's all just plugging in number to the equations she gave us. I finished with a 98 in the class, but most of the class should have failed it because they didn't put the effort in. I think it's unfair that other students who chose not to study enough were given chances to do extra credit and such. Not that I study, but that's not the point. It's nothing like athletics where you have to have the skill. Good grades can be achieved through pure work. Having a naturally good memory is a help, but Ive League schools are FULL of kids who got there because they studied more than anyone.
yeah and maybe if athletes trained harder than they wouldn't be surpassed by dirty athletes. But that's sheer stupidity. What does that have to do with anything? It's not anyone's responsibility to have to do more work or study more to keep up with people who are cheating. Maybe there are students who do try their hardest but can't do better than a C in the course, and they're counting on the curve to get a B-. I know people who really do try hard and put in a lot of hours, but still don't get As. Why should they get less benefit from a curve because other people cheat?
Why should my high grades look worse by comparison because I didn't get the benefit of a curve? A curve is the same thing to me as someone taking "performance enhancing" Ritalin or whatever. Either way, students are getting a grade they didn't earn. Bottom line is, sports and school are completely different. You can train all you want, but if you don't have the natural coordination to hit a curveball, or make a 3 point shot, there's a limit to how good you can be. With academics, if you study enough, you WILL get an A, unless you are clinically mentally retarded, in which case a C would be pretty good. Anyone who doesn't get straight A's and has even moderate intelligence simply isn't trying hard enough.
