look at the stats and seriously tell me he cant be a passer. AND about his upside Ill tell u wat his upside is. he will be a pass first QB who when in trouble will create for himself buying himself either time to find an open man or run for an 80 yd td. So basically his upside is the potential to be donovan mcnabb with mike vicks speed. Reinforcing wat i said about him being the michael jordan of the nfl.
His upside is to be an unstoppable force. If he can refine his throwing mechanics (note: this doesn't necessarily mean he has to change his delivery) and study up on the offensive playbook, he could become both the best running QB in football and one of the top 5 passing QBs. Easily. Saying that Young doesn't have upside because no scrambling QB has ever won the super bowl is like saying that the Oilers never should've signed Warren Moon because no black QB had ever won the Super Bowl. It's a ridiculous arguement.
Ahhh, interesting. Thank you for explaining. I do think it's a load of crap though. Not that I am saying you are wrong in your explanation, but in the assessment itself. He is a grown man. His throwing motion is ripped apart on kids by coaches at the pee-wee level. He throws hard, but not terribly accurately. He doesn't line up under center, which all NFL QBs must be able to do. I know a lot of guys have talked about the Wonderlic like it doesn't matter, but your QB should be decently smart. I don't know VY, so I don't know if he is intelligent or not. He may be a genius, and if so, then he could be a great one. Somehow, I just don't believe that to be the case. Cunningham was a good QB, but IMO, never great. McNabb has become great, simply because he stopped running around. As I have said a few times before, there is a reason they are called quarterbacks. Running back was already taken.
Another thing I have said before. No one will EVER redefine the position of quarterback. Jordan redefined the role of a basketball player. He was able to do that more because there are less players on the court in bball than on a football field. Young being able to run for an 80 yard TD three times a year would be more like a National League pitcher who hits 10 homers over the course of a season. Yeah, it would help his club, but it's only once every five games. That's not redefining a position. It's defining yourself as a player.
Mike Vick was supposedly going to redifine the position with his combination of elite scrambling/running ability along with his passing ability. So far he hasnt done that. Wat im saying is that since Vick has failed so far to redefine the position that young has the skills to do wat vick hasnt been able to, be both a threat in the passing and the running game.
That's what I was talking about. There is no substance to that statement. At least the other guys had a reason for the statement. Exactly how would he refine his mechanics without changing his delivery? He isn't a MLB pitcher. Sidearm is not the way to throw OVER guys just as tall as you. Again, I don't see many scramblers winning the big game. History has shown pretty well that the position doesn't change, no matter who tries. McNabb learned that lesson, and he made it to the Super Bowl. No, THAT was a ridiculous argument. Look at Redskin SB history.
I personally have never seen Vince Young's throwing motion as a problem. He gets distance, he's decently accurate and he is tall enough to keep his throws from getting batted down. I'm much more worried about his ability to dissect defenses (the Big XII isn't exactly full of great D units.) McNabb only really stopped running around once he got Terrell Owens but before that he was a great QB. The word scrambler has such a negative connotation because of Michael Vick--the way I see it the ability to get outside the pocket and keep plays alive is just another dimension to people like McNabb and Young's game. Vick is a glorified runningback. Young is a versitile quarterback. See the difference?
What I am saying is that the position will never be redefined. I don't care how long football is around, the position of QB is like a pitcher in baseball. You don't put your pitcher in with the bases loaded, two outs, bottom of the ninth, down by three. You don't need your QB to run. That's what you use your running back for. Guess we have to wait and see just how inaccurate he will be.
McNabb never became great if he did he would have a SB ring. He is not great he is good. What makes Young potentially better than McNabb is in the big game he performs better not worse than his normal performance. It's about leadership, focus and performing in the clutch and Young has proven that he can perform better than his contemporaries on the biggest stage under the most pressure. That more than anything is what makes a great QB. By the way Joe Namath, Roger Staubach, Steve Young were all great QB and were all great running QB in College and Staubach and Steve Young were great at scrambleing and making plays in the pro's. Being big strong fast and being able to throw on the run and stay up when your hit are extremely important in the NFL today. If you think Young is incapable of making NFL throws that's an argument to not like him although I have yet to hear anyone who has watched tape say that about Young. If you really think having great athletic ability will hold him back from being a great QB, you're not thinking straight.
I never knew that most NFL players were 6'5. the average NFL Player is actually 6'1.5 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6628372. IM NOTsaying he shouldnt rework his mechanics, because doing so wuld only make him better, im just saying that most guys arent nearly as tall as Young.
Decently accurate is what you want to base your franchise on? As far as being tall enough to not have his passes batted down, how many guys on college defenses are as tall and fast as NFL players? In college, you will face maybe two or three guys on a team with that sort of height/speed combination. In the NFL, EVERYONE has it. Plus, in the NFL, you don't survive long on a DLine if you don't learn how to get your hands up. In college, you can get by just pushing your man backward until you an get the pressure on the QB. With Young's delivery, you can expect passes to be knocked down. Count on it. McNabb has always been a good QB, not great. Same with Culpepper and McNair. The negative connotation associated with a scrambler is simple. QBs are paid to throw the ball, while dissecting defenses. NFL defenses will only enjoy playing scramblers more now, after Chicago showed the world how to beat a Micheal Vick. One word: pressure. All you need to do is force a scrambler to run out of the pocket, and let him just try to beat you with his feet. Wouldn't you want to risk giving up a 100 yard game to a QB? Think about it. If a QB is busy running for a 100, he isn't busy throwing the ball downfield.
Good luck running that much in today's NFL... Vincent will be battered and beaten, won't work in the NFL...
I think this is just stupid (please correct me if i am wrong) but are they not mike vicks NFL stats???????? Those are obviously Vince Youngs college stats. All the people who believe Vince Young should not be taken by the Jets, like me, dont doubt that he is a superstar in college. BUT, these stats will not be identical in the pros. There is such a difference in speed and intensity. The real question is... can Vince Young succeed in the pros, not is he a good athlete. He ran a hugely shotgun based COLLEGE offence that worked awesome in college but it wont up against the beasts of DEs in the pros. If Vince Youngs side thrown ball can make it over the towering LBs in the pros is another doubt. The other thing is that VinceYoungs speed will not be so much of an advantage in the pros so he will be pressured into making more throws. Everyone knows that Vick is good in the pros, but no one knows what will become of Vince Young. Im not saying that he is not awesome... but its the big IF that comes with drafting him... no one knows how hes gonna turn out he could be the best qb ever for all i know.
Alio, you make it seem as if having athletic ability is a bad thing for the QB position. The problem with most scrambling QB's who don't succeed is that they are bad passers who have to rely on their athleticism. However, if say, Peyton Manning had the speed and elusiveness of Michael Vick, there is no way that that would be a negative attribute. With Vince Young, that's what the upside is. He has the potential to be as good a passer as Manning, but with the ability to elude pass rushers and buy more time, or when no one is open, run 10 yards for the first down.
A Peyton Manning with the speed and elusivness of Young could be dangerous. Again, only if he stayed in the pocket until all options were gone. That's the problem. I don't care what the athletic ability of a QB is if he isn't prepared to take a hit in an effort to go through his targets first. Scrambling to avoid a hit after a QB realizes there is no one to throw to is one thing, being prepared to run out of the huddle is a totally different story. That's not even mentioning that Manning is deadly accurate, even long distance, and he has a much better throwing motion. I really didn't make my first post to start a flame war. I was asking the serious question about the supposed upside, and it totally warped out. I make no apologies for believing that Young will be a "bust" in the form of a Mike Vick. Does that make either a true "bust?" No. A but never pans out at all. I don't think anyone can honestly say that about Vick. The point is, QBs in that form don't win it all. The position is well established, and all of the great winners followed a certain formula. I don't see Young becoming one of those guys. It's purely my opinion, and nothing more.
I prefer QBs who win and so far in Vick's carer he has been a winner, young was a winner in College but let's no forget Vick took a much less talented Va tech team to a title game and gave a great FSU team all they could handle. Young has a long way to go to get to vick.
A quick point about Vick. He is entering his 6th year in the NFL, he has been to the pro bowl 3 times, he took an okay Atlanta team to the NFC finals, he has had 3 OC and is playing in the wrong system for his talent and this year he will be the same age, 26 as Pennington was when he started his first game in 02. To call Vick a bust at this point when he is just reaching his prime years is very premature.
Vick has been to the Pro Bowl three times, but it's not as if he really earned it last year. His qb rating was slightly better than Bollinger's, and his overall rushing numbers were down as well. I would say that he probably regressed last year, despite a hell of a season by Alge Crumpler. That's a matter for concern, since he was playing in the same offense the year before and did, well, better. Part of Vick's problems stem from team's learning how to neutralize his running ability with more athletic safeties and more sensible schemes. Teams understand that they only have to hold coverage for so long because he won't be patient enough to make the reads to beat them with his arm, and they're using that to take away his legs. The Jets, Panthers, and Bucs have done it to perfection the last few years. Moreover, the myth that is continuously propagated that Vick "took the Falcons to the NFC Championship" is more absurd every time I hear it. That "very mediocre" Falcons team had one of the league's best pass rushes, and both Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett did a very good job. They were sixth in the NFC in scoring defense. Vick basically managed the game against the Rams and then got knocked around by Philadelphia. He might have an overall winning record, but he is not by any means a player that can win games for you. I think there are subtle differences as well. Vick's speed gives him an obvious advantage despite the ways teams are finding to neutralize it. Additionally, I think he's shown and showed at the time a level of maturity that was much higher than Young's, and he went out and surrounded himself with the right people. Plus he walked into a situation with a coach who loved nothing more than run the ball, run the ball, run the ball. You don't know where Young is going to end up. The overall absurdity of this thread is obvious. Vick has played pro football, whereas Young has done exactly nothing. While Vick is looking like a disappointment, he IS still young, and salvageable, but all that is really irrelevant when you consider again that Young has done NOTHING. You don't know what could happen. Comparing prospects ability to perform to established players is one of those ridiculous draft hype things that will never go away. -X-
I think Young will be one of the biggest NFL superstars for the next 15 years, but I really don't think the Jets will take him. I hope they shock the world and do take him, but I am pretty sure they are going to go the "Patriots" way of building a team from the inside out, and will go with D'Brick or Williams. I hope I'm wrong though.
